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Old 10-09-2013, 04:06 PM   #1
slonomo
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Default Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

I've seen this question come up in several different threads, but they are scattered about on the forum here and I'd like to make an official thread about it.

What are the differences between these four engines? These seem to be the choices and have been the topic of conversation here for years. So what gives? Why would I choose one over the other? Aren't they all "Clones" of the Honda GX390? And don't all the aftermarket parts fit each one?

Here's what I am finding online: all with electric start, and 1" keyed shafts

Lifan 420cc 16hp (Home D**ot) $369 free ship

Predator 420cc 13hp 18.9 lb/ft @2500 (Harbor Fr****t) $349 in stock

Duromax 420cc 16hp 21 lb/ft (online retailers) $299 free ship

Vegas Carts 420cc 20hp (Vegas Carts sponsor) $399 free ship

Carroll Stream 420cc 16hp 18.5 lb/ft (online retailer) $374 free ship *just added

Does anyone have torque specs for Lifan? Geoff do you have torque specs for your engines?

Feel free to chime in with your "first hand experience" and opinion. We all want a clone, but which one is the best for us? Is there one "clear winner"?
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Old 10-09-2013, 04:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

To me, the clear winner is Vegas Carts, although I do not have ANY first hand experience with any of these engines. But on paper it looks like a no brainer. I also know that Geoff is a "real person" and has put his hands on these engines, both on the outside and the inside. I also know that he responds to calls, emails, and posts on the forum. And....he doesn't always push his products. Now this speaks alot about a person and a company. And, he's a sponsor. If I need help I feel like he'd go out of his way to help me, even though he has 96 engines that need assembled and shipped out yesterday. I don't know him personally, but I can tell you that if I ran a golf cart business, that is the way I would do it.

Ok, blah blah blah, but really.....Geoff, since you are the resident clone expert....please chime in and give us your "unbiased" opinion. I know you have knowledge about the other 3 engines, so tell us the good, the bad, and the ugly. And give us the "disadvantages" of your engines....
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

You forgot Carrol Stream too! 390cc electric start $355 with free shipping 13hp, 17ft/lbs

or 16hp 18.5ft/lbs w/electric start free shipping $374
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

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Originally Posted by Streetbu View Post
You forgot Carrol Stream too! 390cc electric start $355 with free shipping 13hp, 17ft/lbs

or 16hp 18.5ft/lbs w/electric start free shipping $374
Added it to the list above....although I chose to list the 420cc 16hp version for comparisons sake.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

In comparing the 420s, this is what I have gathered personally from opening up every one of them and inspecting them all firsthand:

1. Lifan has the cleanest castings and best overall quality. The valvetrain is the closest thing you can get to the 440. The valves are SS and its got groove-lock retainers.

2. Duromax is the lowest quality and most difficult to modify. (Hollow Pushrods, Inferior valve material, wierd cylinder head angle, larger camshaft bosses so aftermarket cams dont fit well.

3. Predator has the lowest compression at 8:1 and im not a fan of the combustion chamber. I dont remember what the cam bosses measured out to, I think they were oversize as well. Otherwise its a small step up from the Duromax.

4. Carol Streams are equivalent quality to the predator but with a better combustion chamber. Again a small step up but still not as good as the Lifan.

Im not going to compare the 440s to the 420s, the reason for this is because I designed the 440 by taking all of the good aspects of each of the 420s and throwing some aftermarket goodies in, taking out some EPA junk, and adding some CCs.

By the time you add the timing key, mill the head, buy a tuned carb, buy the valvetrain, and strip the 420 down, youll be way over the cost of a 440 and still be down 20cc, a flat top piston, and a much heavier duty 10 bolt block..... Apples to Oranges.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

Almost forgot, dont pay attention to the HP and TQ ratings coming out of Chinese engines...they are ALL picked out of a hat.

All of the 420s are "rated" 16hp but will struggle to make 14 on most dynos.

Im going to post torque specs on the website tonight, any you need right away?
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

I second what slonomo said. You cant go wrong with Geoff and Vegas Carts. None of the other dealers are going to give you the support Geoff will. Had I known about Vegas Carts at the time I did my conversion I would have gone with them over the duromax "kit" I bought. Better more powerful engine for A LOT less than what I paid. I would also consider the Lifan, not the one for $369 that you listed but the one for $409. This one comes with an 18 amp charging system which I would love to have since I no longer have a starter generator or the means to wire up an external alternator.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

If I ever build another cart, 440 it is! Only reason I got a Carrol Stream was because my buddy bought 2 pallets of them for his race cars a few years ago and I got mine for $275 with electric start. That was his last one and I wont be able to find a deal like that again. Plus with the 440 there are several upgrades most people do anyways!
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffw View Post
In comparing the 420s, this is what I have gathered personally from opening up every one of them and inspecting them all firsthand:

1. Lifan has the cleanest castings and best overall quality. The valvetrain is the closest thing you can get to the 440. The valves are SS and its got groove-lock retainers.

2. Duromax is the lowest quality and most difficult to modify. (Hollow Pushrods, Inferior valve material, wierd cylinder head angle, larger camshaft bosses so aftermarket cams dont fit well.

3. Predator has the lowest compression at 8:1 and im not a fan of the combustion chamber. I dont remember what the cam bosses measured out to, I think they were oversize as well. Otherwise its a small step up from the Duromax.

4. Carol Streams are equivalent quality to the predator but with a better combustion chamber. Again a small step up but still not as good as the Lifan.

Im not going to compare the 440s to the 420s, the reason for this is because I designed the 440 by taking all of the good aspects of each of the 420s and throwing some aftermarket goodies in, taking out some EPA junk, and adding some CCs.

By the time you add the timing key, mill the head, buy a tuned carb, buy the valvetrain, and strip the 420 down, youll be way over the cost of a 440 and still be down 20cc, a flat top piston, and a much heavier duty 10 bolt block..... Apples to Oranges.
Thanks Geoff for the great post! I knew you would have something to offer. I don't know you, never met you, never even talked to you....but I'd have you over for dinner anytime....so we could talk about engines and stuff, of course!

But seriously, this clone thing is new to me, but I know guys have been doing this mod for years and years. Shoot I remember when the engine to have was the Briggs 6 hp side shaft. I remember my grandpa building a rottotiller with a brand new one he bought at Akron Tractor, I must have been 6 years old. Honda came along and turned briggs world inside out. And so the "cloners" came and so began "The Clone Wars"!

Now Geoff said it nicely. I'll say what he really "wanted" to say. Don't buy a Duromax. Don't buy a Predator or Carroll Stream. If you have to go to The Home De**t, get the Lifan, it's good. But the 440 is better, and already modded with more power. Sold!
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Lifan vs. Predator vs. Duromax vs. Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffw View Post
Almost forgot, dont pay attention to the HP and TQ ratings coming out of Chinese engines...they are ALL picked out of a hat.

All of the 420s are "rated" 16hp but will struggle to make 14 on most dynos.

Im going to post torque specs on the website tonight, any you need right away?
I'm sure I can wait til tomorrow.....but if you can send with a push of a button.....
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