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Old 03-05-2018, 05:51 PM   #1
jkredman
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Default EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Yesterday, (Sunday) I changed out the old Danaher controller to the EZGO 350 Curtis Controller on 2010 RXV fleet cart. Now cart won't go.

Symptoms:

Turn on cart, Cart Jerks
Brake Lights always on

Conversion Instructions said to splice into white wire which is supposed to be from motor brake. Unfortunately harness to motor has two white wires. Tried them both. The only difference is the violence with which cart jerks.

Borrowed Curtis Handheld, model 1313 programmer.

Handheld & controller communicate just fine. It even allowed me to set the cart into freedom mode and max out acceleration and top speed.

Depending on which white wire I tap into; Handheld will show the following errors:

1206AC-5360 Throttle Wiper & 1206AC-5360 Brake Wiper

Switching to other white wire Handheld will show only:

1206AC-5360 Throttle Wiper

According to Troubleshooting & diagnostics, both errors indicate:

Brake [or throttle] Pedal input voltage outside active range

Controller response:

Shutdown Throttle

Which is what the cart exhibits....

Why would a controller change cause this condition? Pedals were fine Saturday.

Putting cart into tow mode frees up the break and I have no issues pushing it around.

PS I've looked through the older posts with the last one being in 2016. They're similar, but not identical to this.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:43 AM   #2
mjroman20
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

One of the white wires is KSI to controller 23pin position 20 - you don't want this one.
The other is between brake switch connector and brake connector, this is what needs tapped into.

Depending on which handset you have will determine if you can even access the settings related to this, but both the throttle and the brake have some settings that may need to be adjusted.

There should be both a throttle and brake folder under programming menu. There is a fault low, fault high, deadband, and max. Depending on the software version these are either in actual voltage values or some weird abbreviated hex range. If its actual voltage just measure the input pins for the pots 16 and 17 (accl and brake) and set them accordingly.

Fault low: 0.1~0.2 below resting value
Deadband: 0.3~0.5 over resting value
Max: 0.2~0.5 under fully depressed value
Fault High: 0.3~0.5 over fully depressed value

These are a general guideline they don't need to be exact but I find they typically work well in almost any similar controller.

The controller change resulting in this condition could be a few things.
While I'm not too familiar with he Danaher it may use a different source voltage and source output resistance for its accelerator and brake. All pots are going to have a bit of tolerance, it may be in tolerance for the Danaher but not the Curtis.

Some of the Curtis units are designed for different throttle types, 0-5V TPS, 0-5V Pot, ITS even I have found to be available.

The fault values may be a little more picky on the Curtis unit than the Danaher and you may have a bit of play in the pedals that are causing the fault. Check the spring return action of each as well make sure they aren't weak.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:26 AM   #3
BobBoyce
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

mjroman20 is correct. The factory default settings in the Curtis controllers are so broad that most pedal sets in RXVs will pass the poweron test. However, they are really too broad for decent performance. Since your cart is not passing test, you may have damaged your controller. When you connected the white wire wrong, you connected a 10 Amp fused KSI wire to a Motor Brake circuit in the new controller. That circuit can only sink 3 Amps before it fries the FET that switches the motor brake coil on and off. There is also a shunt on that line that measures current flow, which when exposed to too much current it can destroy the input that is connected to it.

The conversion kit is not the best way to integrate a Curtis upgrade controller into a Danaher controller cart. The conversion kits are prone to corrosion and do not last too long before issues arise. I suggest the harness conversion using the instructions posted here...

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...ocumented.html

The controller can be repaired, I've done it before.

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...ml#post1349615
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:01 PM   #4
jkredman
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Gentlemen, thanks for the information, however Ugh...

Quote:
When you connected the white wire wrong, you connected a 10 Amp fused KSI wire to a Motor Brake circuit in the new controller. That circuit can only sink 3 Amps before it fries the FET that switches the motor brake coil on and off. There is also a shunt on that line that measures current flow, which when exposed to too much current it can destroy the input that is connected to it.
The instructions from ezgo read as follows:

Quote:
27. Cut light color wire (gray or white) M from the motor brake and splice both ends of the cut wire together with the wire from the adapter harness (5) with splice (18 ) supplied in the kit.
No where do they explain there are two white wires and that or how to identify the correct wire.

With regards to destroying the input connected to that, what input would that be? The FET? or something else?

If I don't have the equipment to repair the controller do you know if I can have someone, FSIP, repair it or do they only do swaps?

Thanks again
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Ok I have done this conversion just about a year ago. I'm going by memory and here is how I think it goes.

You needed to find the white wire that ran to the motor brake. You just can't take a guess it has to be the white wire going to the motor brake.

Next you needed to cut this wire my instructions showed where the cut should be. After that you needed to splice together the two end you have now with the white wire coming out of the adaptor harness. The white wire from the harness was about 16" long with nothing attached.

Hope that helps you. But the damaged might have already happened now.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:03 PM   #6
jkredman
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Gentlemen:

One other question before I assume I toasted my new controller....

The cart jerks violently when the key switch is turned. I've read in other threads, there is a twist test that's performed and perhaps the brake is failing the twist test. Is that a possibility?

The new controller is the 350 amp Curtis and I think the old Danaher was something like 250, or 235 AMPS?

Is it possible that the new controller has uncovered an impending issue with the brake?

After all this cart started life as a 2010 fleet cart....

Thank You
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:52 PM   #7
BobBoyce
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkredman View Post
Gentlemen:

One other question before I assume I toasted my new controller....

The cart jerks violently when the key switch is turned. I've read in other threads, there is a twist test that's performed and perhaps the brake is failing the twist test. Is that a possibility?

The new controller is the 350 amp Curtis and I think the old Danaher was something like 250, or 235 AMPS?

Is it possible that the new controller has uncovered an impending issue with the brake?

After all this cart started life as a 2010 fleet cart....

Thank You
Yes, it is failing the twist test. The motor brake is being held in an on condition when it should be off. The likely cause would be the motor brake FET being shorted. It is possible that there was an existing problem with the motor brake, but connecting the wrong wire is just as likely a cause. Checking the resistance of the motor brake coil is the way to test it. The target resistance at DC is 25.5 ohms. In operation, the FET is driven by a PWM at a pulse rate which gives the controller a different value. But DC resistance can be used to test it with an ohm meter on the 200 ohm scale.

My motor brake FET failure was caused by a brand new motor brake that turned out to be defective. I know these Curtis controllers well, so I decided to repair it myself. I prefer the programming aspects more than doing hardware repairs, but I do have the knowledge and equipment. I've designed controllers for a few decades, and I still do that for equipment that I have patents on.

FSIP can repair the common Curtis RXV controllers, such as the 1206AC-5201 to 1206AC-5211. I know that they did not have the 1206AC-53XX 350 Amp upgrade controller files (OS and VCL) or the 1206AC-5212 2Five controller files the last time I had talked to them. I sent them files for the 2016 era 1206AC-5211 controller back in 2017 when Curtis would not supply them with the files because they were still within the factory warranty period.

Curtis does not let FSIP repair controllers that are within the factory warranty period. The way FSIP usually works is you buy a controller from them, then send your controller to them, and they give you a $25 core in return. Not worth it in my opinion. Your damaged controller is worth more than $25. They won't have a 1206AC-5350 on hand anyways, as they are pretty uncommon. They will have plenty of 1206AC-5201 and newer stock 235 Amp controllers, but that would be a downgrade for you.

I wish you were closer. I bought a new 1206AC-5350 to use for my RXV chassis based road car project that I intend to finish once the weather improves. I also have motor brake FETs. They are a royal pain in the *** to change out. They are surface mounted and heat-sinked to the PC board under them, so you must literally destroy the FET to get at the heat-sink tab to unsolder it. Typical hot gas reflow techniques do not penetrate the FET well enough to heat the tab to get it loose from the PCB. The PCB heat-sink pad works too well.

Bob
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:13 PM   #8
jkredman
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Bob

Thank you so much for the info youíve provided. I really appreciate your knowledge since EZGO tech support and my local dealer have let me down.

Do you have the part number for the FET?

I think I can get them from an electronics supply house in Kansas City (or St. Louis)

Check me out here and make sure Iím thinking clearly...

1) I need to go the back of the cart, pull the plug from the motor brake and run a continuity test to where I cut the white wire to positively ID which white wire to connect to. Basically using an ohm meter looking for very little to no resistance. (Iíve already cut them both.)

2) I need to repair my controller. (I understand what needs to be done, but my only soldering equipment is a Weller trigger activated soldering gun & a benzomatic fine tipped soldering torch - hence not sure I have the equipment to change the FET w/o breaking something else...). Gotta figure this part out...

3) Reinstall the controller.


You suggested that I modify the wiring harness. I looked at the info you provided. I can do it but it brought to mind a question.

The EZGO kit provides a 23 pin to 23 pin adaptor. Do you know anything about this epoxy encased black box. Does it switch some wiring between connectors or is it merely a pass through device to facilitate the 23 pin to 35 pin conversion.

I guess Iím wondering if I can use their adaptor harness assembly as a model to check my work against.

Thanks again for your advice!!!
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:54 AM   #9
mjroman20
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

FSIP does do the 5350 and 5360s
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:08 AM   #10
BobBoyce
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Default Re: EZGO RXV won't release brake after Danaher to Curtis Conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjroman20 View Post
FSIP does do the 5350 and 5360s
Not worth it, even if they do it. The FET is a $2 part and they charge way too much.

As for the part # of the FET, it's on the part in my photo. You can buy it from Mouser Electronics. Local electronic supply outlets will have generic replacements. I recommend the original part #, not a generic.

Bob
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