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Old 09-08-2012, 11:38 PM   #11
buzzmanc
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Scotty will take care of you when you get him on the phone. If the cart is a PDS you should not need to upgrade the switch, only if it is a series cart. Definately need the controller, all wires from the batteries to the controller and to the motor, and the solenoid. Like I read once in a post, think of the amperage of the batteries going through pipes. You want all of the pipes to let as much flow as the last pipe it flowed through with no bottlenecks. Once you get a bottleneck you get heat which leads to failure. You are in the right place and I can tell you from experience that both Scottys on here are a great help to get you back going again.

Chris
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:55 AM   #12
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Just upgrading to a heavy duty solenoid and a 400A controller will most likely take care of the intermittent shut-down problem you are having, but there are some other problems that will need to be addressed in the future.

The motor drive circuit of a PDS cart consists of 5 things that form a series chain and the entire chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
(Listed alphabetically since total motor drive current passes through all of them.)
1. Batteries
2. Cables
3. Controller
4. Motor.
5. Solenoid

Sounds like Controller and Solenoid upgrades are going to be ordered on Monday.

Cables? Good 4Ga cables will suffice, but "Good" is the key word. If your cables like like those in the attached picture, they are probably the original (2006) cables and very likely to be less than Good. The cables pictured were on my cart and looked okay, but the open ends allowed corrosion to impregnate the strands of the conductors, which resulted in higher than normal resistance. If you replace the cables, get the closed end type and replace all 10.
The 2 smaller gauge cables going to the Field windings are probably okay, but make sure connections are clean and tight.

Motor? Stock motor is okay for now, but will be working hard with 23" tires and a 400A controller.
Having motor rebuilt by Plum Quick or replacing it with a high torque motor, may be a future consideration.

T-605 batteries? Okay for now, but due to high current demands, the run-time will be less and they won't last as long.
When they give up the ghost, replace the with 225AH or higher rated batteries.


Not part of the motor drive circuit directly, but a critical component, is the charger.
A PW-2 is a good charger, but I don't think yours is working right. so let's find out.

Discharge the battery pack down to about 70% State of Charge (37.1V) and recharge.
The ammeter should jump to about 18A and stay there for at least 15 minutes, then drop off to about 8A when the on-charge battery voltage reaches about 42.5V and then taper off to 5A or so as the on-charge voltage climbs into the 44V to 46V range and the charger automatically shuts off.

If it doesn't, further investigation is needed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Before replacing cables 1200x800.jpg (129.6 KB, 0 views)
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

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Originally Posted by campscruizer View Post
...................The wire leading to the positive post on the 1st battery gets warm to the tough (not hot).................
I got curious about how warm my cables were getting these days, so I gave them a workout today.

Cart is stock '08 PDS except for 2Ga cables.
About 10 miles mixed street and cross country driving.
About half was on the back streets in town with a stop sign about every other block.
Regen braking to stop and WOT accelerations from the stop signs.
A hundred yard, 30% uphill grade on the way in and a mile long 10% uphill grade on way back.c
Ambient air temperature was 76°F and all the cables cables actually felt cool to the touch when I parked it and put on charge.
Batteries were 70% SoC when I got back. (I need new batteries. )

The 10% uphill, is half a mile from my house on the way back from town and the cart slowed from 15MPH to 12MPH, as measured by GPS (Running in Mild Hill mode), so I know the controller was passing the maximum amps available for about 5 minutes, only a few minutes before I felt the cables, so they should have been warm, if they were going to get warm.
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:15 PM   #14
campscruizer
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Tested the battery charger...
finally after running it...letting it cool down...and running it some more...off and on for a few hours. (Took that long of cooling down with my current issue to let me run the batteries down past the 70%)
Anyhow...got them run down to 36.36...and still when I plugged them up to the charger, it only jumped to about 5.
I've never seen that charger go to 18a or anything that high as long as I've owned the cart (granted I haven't looked at it every single solitary time in the past two years that I've plugged it in). It is obviously charging them, just can't get it to read like most people talk about their charger doing.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Something is definitely wrong with the charger, or the cart.
If at all possible, try a different charger on your cart or your charger on a different cart.
That will tell us if the problem is in the charger or the cart.

The charging loop starts at the transformer secondaries, through the diodes, through the output cable, through the charger plug cart receptacle positive terminals, through the fuse on the B+ post on the battery pack, through the batteries and interconnecting cables, through the cable on the B- post on the battery pack back to the cart receptacle charger plug negative terminal, through the charger output cable, through the ammeter and fuse wires back the the transformer secondaries.

Excessive resistance anywhere in the charging loop can cause a low reading on charger's ammeter.
A blown diode or one of the fuse wires blown will also cause low amps.
Also, a bad capacitor in the charger will cause low amps.

Fortunately, a PW-II is built like a tank and everything is fixable, and there are only a couple wires and the receptacle in the cart that is part of the charge loop that isn't part of the motor drive circuit also.

Here is a copy of the Lester 19300 manual, which is what a PW-II actually is.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Lester-19300 - Charger - Service Manual 35827_A1.pdf (1.59 MB, 0 views)
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:12 PM   #16
campscruizer
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Still having sort of the same problem...
Got the new stuff today and installed. New Alltrax 400 controller, new solenoid, resistor and diode. Also installed the new digital voltage battery meter.

Now, it is still bogging down on the same point in the hill (but not totally stopping as before).
Ran for about 30-45 minutes (where before I was lucky to get 15)
Then died.

Runs much longer and better than before, but we still have something wrong. Notice when problems come back, voltage on new digital metal reads 21 volts headlights go dim, tail lights go out. But if you let out on the pedal volatge goes back to 37 volts and lights work again.

I then plugged it up to the charger, and the digital meter read 37.4 volts.

Now after being on the charger about an how it is reading 37.7.

What should I be looking for next?
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:29 AM   #17
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Quote:
Originally Posted by campscruizer View Post
Still having sort of the same problem...
Got the new stuff today and installed. New Alltrax 400 controller, new solenoid, resistor and diode. Also installed the new digital voltage battery meter.

Now, it is still bogging down on the same point in the hill (but not totally stopping as before).
Ran for about 30-45 minutes (where before I was lucky to get 15)
Then died.

Runs much longer and better than before, but we still have something wrong. Notice when problems come back, voltage on new digital metal reads 21 volts headlights go dim, tail lights go out. But if you let out on the pedal volatge goes back to 37 volts and lights work again.

I then plugged it up to the charger, and the digital meter read 37.4 volts.

Now after being on the charger about an how it is reading 37.7.

What should I be looking for next?
What was the battery pack voltage before you started your trip?
Should have been 38.2 or higher.

They symptoms you describe are those of a deeply discharged battery pack, or one with a bad battery or two in it.
What are the individual battery voltages before starting on a ride and when cart bogs down?

-----------------
Your charger isn't working right.
Starting at 37.4V, the charger's ammeter should have jumped to 18A or more when it was plugged into cart.
The battery pack voltage should have started slowly climbing, probably about 0.1V every second or so until it reached approximately 42.5V, and then more slowly until it climbed into the 44V to 46V range and the charger shut off, about four to eight hours later.

After being on charge for an hour, the voltage should have been 42V or higher.

Either fix your PW-II or get another charger before you destroy your batteries and/or controller.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

""until it reached approximately 42.5V, and then more slowly until it climbed into the 44V to 46V range and the charger shut off, about four to eight hours later.

After being on charge for an hour, the voltage should have been 42V or higher.""



These readings are for my 36 volt golf cart ???
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Quote:
Originally Posted by campscruizer View Post
""until it reached approximately 42.5V, and then more slowly until it climbed into the 44V to 46V range and the charger shut off, about four to eight hours later.

After being on charge for an hour, the voltage should have been 42V or higher.""



These readings are for my 36 volt golf cart ???
Yes, those are the correct 'On-Charge" readings for a 36V battery pack.

Here is the recommended charge curve for Trojan deep cycle batteries and a properly working PW-II follows the prescribed curve almost perfectly.
(The numbers on the chart are for a single 2V cell and a 36V battery pack has 18 of them, so do the math.)


Here is a chart showing State of Charge vs Voltage.
(These voltage readings are taken about 12 hours after the the on-charge voltage reached about 2.45V to 2.79V per cell and the charger shut off automatically.)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Charge curve.JPG (33.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg StateofChargeChart.jpg (53.8 KB, 0 views)
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #20
campscruizer
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Default Re: Help~Cart dies intermittently then will run again once it sits

Ok, so after being on the charger last night, I'm only getting a reading of 37.1. Don't know if I should keep driving it or not to get the second reading you were asking about. Don't want to ruin another controller etc...

Is there something (simple) that I can look at on the charger itself, before I throw it out and have to buy another? (In otherwords could just a blown fuse or something simple in there cause the charger to not charge correctly buy still charge some?)

And should I go ahead and try to charge each of the batteries on a regular charger to get them back up? To see if maybe with a repaired charger/or new one...that the batteries can be saved? Or at this point can the batteries be recovered enough?
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