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Old 12-10-2014, 02:52 PM   #1
Lost In Florida
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Unhappy Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Hello everyone! I'm new here, and I'm bringing a head-scratcher with me. This has me stumped.

I am working on an '03 gas Villager 6, and we have had a charging issue with it for awhile now.

This cart has been modified to idle, and has a keyed ignition. I didn't do this; the cart came to me that way.
The issue comes in that the stock generator was not supplying any charge to the battery when idling, only when accelerating--we came to find out that's normal operation.
But this cart is a beach trolley utilizing a lit-up topsign and LED strip lights inside the cart, so we need it to be charging the battery at idle, as well as accelerating. When accelerating, voltage output stays around 14.5v .
Idling it constantly and displaying the lights when the vehicle is off is quickly draining the battery, which in turn, is not being properly recharged.

SO! With all that in mind..
Found a new starter generator from Advanced Motors & Drives labelled as "High-Output at Idle, Club Car with Key Start" (part# 7128 ), bought it, installed it...
Still have the same voltage coming out at idle (12.0v - 12.2v). When accelerating, charging occurs as expected, with the expected voltage (14.5 to 14.7).
Have tried adjusting (increasing) idle RPM speed to see if having the cart idle at a higher speed would allow the starter generator to furnish voltage at idle, but no luck.
Called Advanced Motors & Drives, engineer said it should be working fine, should be wired up identical to the other one, and that it's possible the cart may need to be idling at 2,700 rpm to have the starter generator engage?
2,700? Really? At idling? What..?

Found this generator by chance on a parts website, thinking a simple switch to the "right starter generator" would finally solve the "not idling right" problem.

Is there, by chance, anyone out there with a similar cart set-up, that has half an idea what to do? Some magic step we missed somewhere along the line? Something else that should be installed that wasn't, when the cart was modified initially?
According to the engineer, the new starter generator should be producing voltage at idle, or otherwise "should be performing as advertised".
We need this cart to idle, and to charge at idle. It's constantly in traffic, hence the modifications, but not charging the battery while idling is causing us huge headaches.

Thank you in advance for any replies, even if they are shots in the dark!
Seems like this mod is really more hassle than it's worth, but it's a necessary evil for us.


Notes:
Voltage regulator has been tested and is functioning fine; stock parts
Solenoid and starting relay have been replaced recently; stock parts
Battery has been replaced recently and is being tested daily to verify cells are holding voltage at 12.6 overnight
Starter Generator is brand new, but.. not working?
Engine drive belt has been replaced recently; stock parts
Cart starts and runs great, just doesn't produce voltage at idle

I have crawled all over Google and different forums using every combination of keywords I can come up with that applies to my situation. Just can't seem to find anything quite as specific as what I'm looking for, which is pretty much:
Club Car>Gas>Villager 6>Modified to Idle/Key Start>No voltage at idle>Replaced stock starter generator to make sure it produces voltage at idle>Still doesn't>Why not?
I'm coming close, but not quite my exact problem anywhere.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:09 PM   #2
93yellowclubcar
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Your problem lies in the fact that you're trying to get a generator to put out a charge at idle, that just won't happen. That is the reason that back in the day they switched from a generator system on cars to an alternator - alternators will charge at idle, generators will not.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93yellowclubcar View Post
Your problem lies in the fact that you're trying to get a generator to put out a charge at idle, that just won't happen. That is the reason that back in the day they switched from a generator system on cars to an alternator - alternators will charge at idle, generators will not.
I appreciate your quick response.
I do have a question, though.. What about the starter generator we have installed now, which is advertised as "high output at idle"?
Am I wrong in assuming "high output" refers to the voltage being produced?


Edit: Also, the engineer at Advanced Motors & Drives seemed to indicated that yes, this particular starter generator is expected to charge at idle.
We explained our problem to him, and he affirmed that we should see voltage higher than what we're getting, at idle, which was when he suggested increasing the idle speed to get the proper voltage.
Shouldn't he have headed us off and told us no, there is no way to have it charge at idle?
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost In Florida View Post
I appreciate your quick response.
I do have a question, though.. What about the starter generator we have installed now, which is advertised as "high output at idle"? Am I wrong in assuming that refers to the voltage being produced?
I forgot my manners before - Welcome to BGW!

I would assume that what you have now should be producing more voltage at idle than what it does, but I have little experience with gas Club Cars, I'm an electric cart guy. Another hobby of mine is old tractors though, and a common upgrade is to put a Chevrolet alternator on in place of the generator so that a tractor will charge at idle, because the generators will not. Is there a warranty/repair department where you bought the new S/G? Perhaps they would like to repair or replace the current one with a new one and you could see if that is any better?
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93yellowclubcar View Post
I forgot my manners before - Welcome to BGW!

I would assume that what you have now should be producing more voltage at idle than what it does, but I have little experience with gas Club Cars, I'm an electric cart guy. Another hobby of mine is old tractors though, and a common upgrade is to put a Chevrolet alternator on in place of the generator so that a tractor will charge at idle, because the generators will not. Is there a warranty/repair department where you bought the new S/G? Perhaps they would like to repair or replace the current one with a new one and you could see if that is any better?
Ah, thank you! Glad to be here. lol

I have considered replacing the s/g with an alternator in a few of my irritated days, but am quite hesitant to modify the stupid cart any further than what has been done already. (Also figuring out which alternator is needed; I'm sure it's not just, "Yeah, give me that one.")

The parts place we got the current s/g from is a local place, and they.. are less than desirable to have to ever deal with again. However, it is a possibility to return the current s/g, but the only other option is to go back to the stock one, which is the one we just replaced with this new one.

The stock s/g is guaranteed not to charge at idle, which is what this new one is doing anyway, so for the time being staying with this one should be fine as it's functioning exactly the same as the other one.
Then if/when we figure out what's causing it not to charge at idle, it'll be functioning correctly--for our needs.

But alternators.. yeesh. Has anyone modified one of these club cars to run on an alternator, that you can think of?
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Sitting here thinking, there is another option. You can get a stiffer engagement spring for the clutch (I think the driven clutch (rear end one), not sure though) that will allow the engagement RPM to be a bit higher. With that, you could turn up the idle a little more before the cart starts to move so that maybe that generator could do a little better job.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93yellowclubcar View Post
Sitting here thinking, there is another option. You can get a stiffer engagement spring for the clutch (I think the driven clutch (rear end one), not sure though) that will allow the engagement RPM to be a bit higher. With that, you could turn up the idle a little more before the cart starts to move so that maybe that generator could do a little better job.
This may be the magic answer right here.
This would also allow for the cart to shift into gear, despite the high idle rpm, right?
Forgive me, I'm a bit tired lol
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Yes, the cart would still go into gear while running because the rear end clutch would not be engaging yet due to the stiffer spring. I'll defer to the gas cart experts to help you out on which one and where to get it. Hopefully one of the gasser guys will see this and chime in.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 93yellowclubcar View Post
Yes, the cart would still go into gear while running because the rear end clutch would not be engaging yet due to the stiffer spring. I'll defer to the gas cart experts to help you out on which one and where to get it. Hopefully one of the gasser guys will see this and chime in.
I cannot thank you enough for your help.
I was pulling my hair out and spending fruitless hours pouring over every scrap of forum I could find on google, and here. xD
Club Car, parts suppliers, local cart repair shops.. no help. Everyone shrugged and went, "I dunno, that's weird."

Thank goodness I finally have some sort of lead on this.
Thank you so, so much, and I'll keep tracking the thread incase anyone else drops in, and info on that particular spring.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Club Car Villager 6 modified to idle; Starter-Gen not recharging battery at idle?

ACTUALLY your better off putting a battery isolator and adding a deep cycle battery to this cart for what you are trying to do running signs and leds off the deep cycle and the other for the cart to run your asking to much of the battery and the charging circut of a golf cart is only 16 amps max and your pulling more than that with the light draw may be 20 AMPS you need capacity more than charging , you can always recharge the deep cycle as needed at night it would keep your running battery out of the circut and keep you from burning up electrical components on your engine
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