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Old 01-20-2020, 01:25 PM   #11
raydhd
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

Some of the racers shim both the crank and cam shafts for end play. I have bought the shims for both for my Omega VC 460 build. I gather the only way to do that on the cam is to preassemble the block and front cover without the piston/crank/rod and then measure the end play of the cam. Paul of Paulskarts found that 5/8" arbor shaft shim kits serve this purpose perfectly. I bought the set listed on amazon" arbor steel shim kit 25160" FYI I measured the 2 cams I have laying here and found the VC192-1,174100 to be .030" wider than 192,14-1-128. The first being a VC supplied torque cam and the second an early VC stock clone cam.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:22 PM   #12
Shepard
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottykify View Post
Hey guys, I just finished up building a VC460 and used all the parts that came with it, I also upgraded to champion 1.1 rockers. so I noticed a slight noise when turning the engine over by hand, it ONLY happened when the pushrods and rockers were installed and valve spring pressure is pushing against it. Almost like the noise is camshaft gear backlash and when the lifter is on the down side of the cam ramp it would make a tick noise.

So I figured it must just be normal, so I installed it in the cart and started it. The thing runs great with awesome throttle response but the valvetrain noise is horrible. Im just curious if others have noticed this with the stock cam that comes with the VC460?

I have since pulled the engine back out, tore it down and cannot find anything wrong with it, verified the noise is only there when the valve springs are pushing against the lifters. I would purchase another cam if I knew that would fix the issue.

Thanks
When you adjusted the valve -- both valves up -- piston at TDC - then about a 1/6 turn more gets you off the compression release on the exhaust. The 460 with the valves out of adjustment will be very loud mechanically. I'm a mechanical engineer and can tell you if you adjust your valves according to the sticky above in the clone section there is room for error adjusting your valves. I know the link goes to briggs and stratton but the adjustment method is proper for any small engine with a compression release on the exhaust

https://www.hunker.com/13405378/how-...ratton-engines
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:57 PM   #13
scottykify
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

I was cognizant of the compression release when I initially set the valves. and I actually tightened down the adjusters to zero lash in addition to preloading the valves to see if that would get rid of this noise. but it did not the knocking/ticking is still there even with no lash at all.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:59 PM   #14
chrisr32
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

I shared earlier what the VC460 cam sounded like in the VC460, this is the same VC460 cam in a 420 both with HD springs and same valve lash. You can hear the difference between the videos that the VC460 cam in the VC460 makes a lot more valve train noise.

In all fairness, the VC460 is sold as a racing engine and as someone said at VC "The 460s are designed to have looser tolerances than a 420 because it has to live in a more demanding environment (racing go karts) vs a standard 420 which is designed as a stationary engine that runs one speed all day long and doesn’t get beat as hard as a 460 would.", so with an open header like in kart racing who would even hear it. My VC460 is used in a motorcycle where the muffler is needed and why I did all the experimenting to determine the root cause of the noise.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:26 PM   #15
raydhd
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

Rocking the flywheel back and forth probably does show camshaft end play with the helical cam gears. I am not so sure the OP merely hand turning his engine over in one direction shows the same problem. Even odder is the noise happening with the engine running at rpms where I can't imagine the cam not being under a constant load against one side of the engine where end play would enter the picture.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:54 PM   #16
scottykify
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

So a little update. I have no solution yet, crank has .014 endplay to it. The stock predator 420 cam does NOT fix the noise. I even put the stock 420 pushrods and rocker arms on it, noise is still there.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:05 PM   #17
chrisr32
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottykify View Post
It sure sounds like its coming from inside the engine. I've been brainstorming for a day or so now and here are my thoughts. The noise is very consistent on both valves at any rpm basically, and there is 1 click when the valve starts to close, and another click when it is actually closed. So in my mind the noise is possibly gear lash banging around from drive side of the teeth to driven side of the teeth as the spring pressure actually drives the cam. and then when the lifters are back on the base circle of the cam there is another click as the crank starts to drive the cam again. Or maybe its the thrust play since its a helical gear and the cam is moving axially banging on the front cover and the engine block. Hopefully Im explaining myself well enough to make sense.
Yea, mine was quieter with the 420 cam in the VC460, not as quite as the stock 420 with the stock 420 cam, but its not nearly as loud of valve train noise as the VC460 cam in the VC460. You may want to ask VC for guidance.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:05 PM   #18
raydhd
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

Do the cam bosses on both the side cover and block appear to be intact ?
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:27 PM   #19
scottykify
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

Just ran out to check and both cam bosses looks good and new. the cam fits nice and tight in its bore. The VC cam is .005 shorter overall length and shoulder to shoulder, as well as .005 smaller OD on the gear when compared to the stock one. but being as the stock cam STILL makes the noise that doesn't really mean much. The noise sounds like steel on steel, when I am jockeying the cam around hitting the crank gear to gear it really sounds like the noise Im chasing. I really thought a cam swap would fix it, I will say the noise SEEMS quieter with the stock cam but its still there, and its NOT there in the totally stock 420 predator engine.

I also put very weak setup valve springs on to replace the actual full strength valve springs and the noise is essentially all gone.

I have been emailing Ivan at Vegas carts, thats who always talks to me about any tech issues and he basically said to find someone who is familiar with the engine to figure it out and since they quit assembling the engines 3 years ago he doesnt know anything about them and cannot help me. So they wont be any help here.

I think I need to check camshaft thrust play next..
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:27 PM   #20
BIKERMIKEYBLACK
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Default Re: VC460 valvetrain noise?

When I was having trouble with Vegas Ivan was no help you need to talk to Geoff if you can
Good luck
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