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Old 11-28-2022, 01:44 PM   #1
bbooth1986
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Location: Houston, TX
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Default Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

I have a 2010 Zone 48v 6 passenger golf cart, which was previously running 8 Lead Acid Trojan batteries, through a Curtis 1268 controller. It was running great, but the batteries were getting weak on hills and depleting quicker than normal.... I decided to jump headlong into Lithium.

Step 1: I purchased 2 BigBattery Badger (2nd Gen) 48V lithium batteries.

These are the units: https://bigbattery.com/products/48v-...mc-48ah-2-1kwh

- Outcome:
I installed them and the cart was painfully slow and seemed to be in a limp mode. 3-4 MPH top speed

- Troubleshooting:
I called BigBattery, they informed me I needed 2 more batteries to be able to run my controller/motor. I begrudingly sent them another $2k

Step 2: 2 more batteries arrived, installed them both

- Outcome:
Same limp mode.... !!!!!

- Troubleshooting:
I called BigBattery, who insisted my controller was the culprit and I needed to upgrade, which they suggested a Naviatas 600amp unit.

Step 3: I dropped $900 on a Naviatas 600amp controller, and installed it....

- Outcome:
After some persuading, it is faster than limp mode but not even close to the power I had with the old lead acid batteries and curtis controller. It **** near squeals the tires on initial throttle application, but then the torque completely dies off and it slowly arrives at a top speed of ~16MPH. On hills is slows down to 12-13MPH.

- Troubleshooting:
I fortunately now get diagnostics with Navitas, which indicates a "Low Battery Limiting" fault. I called Navitas and they did some tweaking, which fixed the fault but not the speed. Navitas thinks its the batteries, Big Battery thinks its the controller or something else. The Low Battery Limiting error also came back this morning, and they are fully charged....

I am about to give up.... please, before I drop this thing in a lake... any thoughts on what the issue(s) might be?

Last edited by bbooth1986; 11-28-2022 at 01:45 PM.. Reason: Removing an unintended emoji
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Old 11-28-2022, 03:07 PM   #2
Pat911
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

The bigBattery BADGER is not a real 48v battery. It is NMC chemistry so to be a 48v nominal battery it should have 14 cells in it, or 14S configuration which would give it a 51.8v nominal/58.8v max voltage. The BADGER is only 12S configuration, it only has 12 cells which is 2 short of what it should have. Voltage is 44v nominal and 50.4v max.

The voltage is too low for the controller. The problem is the battery, not the controller.

Cheers
Pat.
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Old 12-01-2022, 05:29 PM   #3
bbooth1986
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
The bigBattery BADGER is not a real 48v battery. It is NMC chemistry so to be a 48v nominal battery it should have 14 cells in it, or 14S configuration which would give it a 51.8v nominal/58.8v max voltage. The BADGER is only 12S configuration, it only has 12 cells which is 2 short of what it should have. Voltage is 44v nominal and 50.4v max.

The voltage is too low for the controller. The problem is the battery, not the controller.

Cheers
Pat.
I really appreciate your reply! What battery would you recommend for my setup then?
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Old 12-02-2022, 12:18 AM   #4
Pat911
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

It depends on the range you want to get and how much you want to spend. Have a look at Eco Battery. They are a sponsor here and from what others have said, their after sales service is second to none. They have a 72Ah or a 105Ah. If you need more range than that gives you then you could install 2 72Ah for a total of 144Ah. But best to speak with them directly about which specific battery. A couple of their guys are members here.
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Old 12-02-2022, 07:08 AM   #5
Eco Battery
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbooth1986 View Post
I have a 2010 Zone 48v 6 passenger golf cart, which was previously running 8 Lead Acid Trojan batteries, through a Curtis 1268 controller. It was running great, but the batteries were getting weak on hills and depleting quicker than normal.... I decided to jump headlong into Lithium.

Step 1: I purchased 2 BigBattery Badger (2nd Gen) 48V lithium batteries.

These are the units: https://bigbattery.com/products/48v-...mc-48ah-2-1kwh

- Outcome:
I installed them and the cart was painfully slow and seemed to be in a limp mode. 3-4 MPH top speed

- Troubleshooting:
I called BigBattery, they informed me I needed 2 more batteries to be able to run my controller/motor. I begrudingly sent them another $2k

Step 2: 2 more batteries arrived, installed them both

- Outcome:
Same limp mode.... !!!!!

- Troubleshooting:
I called BigBattery, who insisted my controller was the culprit and I needed to upgrade, which they suggested a Naviatas 600amp unit.

Step 3: I dropped $900 on a Naviatas 600amp controller, and installed it....

- Outcome:
After some persuading, it is faster than limp mode but not even close to the power I had with the old lead acid batteries and curtis controller. It **** near squeals the tires on initial throttle application, but then the torque completely dies off and it slowly arrives at a top speed of ~16MPH. On hills is slows down to 12-13MPH.

- Troubleshooting:
I fortunately now get diagnostics with Navitas, which indicates a "Low Battery Limiting" fault. I called Navitas and they did some tweaking, which fixed the fault but not the speed. Navitas thinks its the batteries, Big Battery thinks its the controller or something else. The Low Battery Limiting error also came back this morning, and they are fully charged....

I am about to give up.... please, before I drop this thing in a lake... any thoughts on what the issue(s) might be?
I definitely think you would be happier with an Eco Battery. However…..

Before you give up, go into the Navitas app and just lower your Battery Voltage to 40V or even 38V. If the Navitas controller sees less voltage than expected by their algorithm, it will pull power. Their controller is designed to limit power and protect the battery from too much voltage drop. Since your packs starting voltage is lower than the typical lithium battery, it will sag into the range where power is pulled.

At least then you will know if it’s the controller or not. It may be the final solution, but will help weed a few things out.
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Old 12-02-2022, 03:08 PM   #6
Pat911
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco Battery View Post
go into the Navitas app and just lower your Battery Voltage to 40V or even 38V. If the Navitas controller sees less voltage than expected by their algorithm, it will pull power.
Good info. What do you mean by “pull power” though, draw more current or disconnect the load?
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Old 12-03-2022, 09:31 AM   #7
Eco Battery
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
Good info. What do you mean by “pull power” though, draw more current or disconnect the load?
I mean it will go into reduced power state which is their version of limp mode.
If I recall it correctly, it won’t shut off completely unless the battery goes into low voltage protection.
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Old 12-03-2022, 04:31 PM   #8
Pat911
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Ok, which is what the original controller was doing, but at a higher cutoff voltage as it is not adjustable.

12S compared to 14S is a 15% drop in voltage. Even though the Navitas controller is not in limp mode, the OP would still see a performance decrease though wouldn’t they?

Cheers
Pat.
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Old 12-03-2022, 04:48 PM   #9
Eco Battery
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat911 View Post
Ok, which is what the original controller was doing, but at a higher cutoff voltage as it is not adjustable.

12S compared to 14S is a 15% drop in voltage. Even though the Navitas controller is not in limp mode, the OP would still see a performance decrease though wouldn’t they?

Cheers
Pat.
It depends on what Navitas did to fix the problem. They may have just turned off the diagnostic for the low battery fault code, or lowered the threshold, but not enough to make a big difference in this case. Even when not displaying a low battery fault code, the controller could possibly be in a reduced power state which would cause loss of power.

It also could be exactly what you surmised from the get go, which is that the nominal voltage is just too low to get the expected performance.

Voltage = speed so it is very likely that he needs to jump up to a 51V pack. I was just hoping he could get it to perform well enough with current batteries, since he paid a lot for them.
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Old 12-04-2022, 03:57 AM   #10
Pat911
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Default Re: Zone Golf Cart | Navitas 600a Controller | BigBattery Lithium Upgrade = SLOW??

Yes he did….and they advised him to purchase two more, and the Navitas controller! If it were me I’d be asking for a refund.
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