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Old 08-03-2020, 02:04 PM   #101
HummerKart
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

Perfect, thanks for the explanation. I need to study my current system a little more. The thing that bothers me is if there is any parasitic currents in the Alltrax that might drain the battery slowly if I'm not always hooked up to a charger and BMS for extended periods.

Thanks again, Sergio. Still learning...
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:36 AM   #102
DaveTM
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

Once again....Thanks Sergio!! Your explanations go above and beyond that even a layperson can understand the logic!!
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:23 PM   #103
WalterM6
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

To add a little clarification. The Alltrax HV Cutoff should be below the BMS HV Cutoff and above the charger cutoff voltage.
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Old 11-27-2020, 05:55 PM   #104
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

One more reason that I can't wait for the new glass solid-state battery to come out ...
\
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise...getting-better
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:17 PM   #105
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerald j View Post
As I said I am not sure really what ev battery centers bms systems have on them, but the WiFi bms would hookup to a web adress and it would say discharge/charge enabled/disabled and had options to start and stop balancing the cells, also to enable and disable charge and discharge then another one for the WiFi frequency I believe, but I checked the cells they were balanced as of when I got home
Probably a Chinese BMS. They're in business to make a profit and will go as cheap as they can.

My experience with lithium EV batteries is mostly in the Off-Grid solar applications, as such, I'm a member of many online groups dealing with this stuff.

I've seen so many Chinese BMS's fail it makes me wonder why people still buy them. Ya, some are better than others, but the general rule is that if the pack current runs through the BMS, its probably a piece of junk.

If you rebuild, get yourself a quality BMS. I use REC BMS, but Batrium and and Orion are just as good. These are called "Vehicle quality" systems because they are built to a higher standard. Yes, they are more expensive, but your fire is a good example of why they are more expensive.

To be honest, your loss is minimal and insignificant. Imagine if you didn't have the ability to roll that cart out of the garage.. or if this was a BMS on a stationary 30kWh battery bank in your home..

I keep telling people over and over.. get a quality BMS.. Chinese products are crap. and I catch a lot of flak for saying it.

One other question for you, I might have missed it, what battery charger were you using? Was it a lithium ion charger or just a normal lead acid unit?

Were you depending on the BMS to do its job or was it just a back up in case the charger malfunctioned?
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:42 PM   #106
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

Jerald has not been online since March 2019 so probably will not respond.

For those of us that remember the story, the setup that EV battery center sold only used the BMS for charging, not discharging protection, it was up to the user to provide that part of the system. It clearly stated on their site it was parts only and you needed to know what you were doing to implement.

Jerald posted that the batteries got so low one time that the charger would not work (that was good) but he got a power supply type charge that allowed him to charge.

He was warned that over discharging could cause dendrites that may perforate the separation layer during future charges and at very least to monitor the battery for temperature or size increases carefully.

As far as Chinese products it is certainly true that quality control on the retail side is very spotty but lots of "quality" American products and/or components are made in China, just the reality of manufacturing costs.

Most of the "drop-in" lithium packs are built with Chinese BMS boards.

When properly implemented Chinese BMS setups can be very safe and certainly way cheaper than some over priced BMS products that offer features that are not needed.
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:22 PM   #107
Murby
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Jerald has not been online since March 2019 so probably will not respond.

For those of us that remember the story, the setup that EV battery center sold only used the BMS for charging, not discharging protection, it was up to the user to provide that part of the system. It clearly stated on their site it was parts only and you needed to know what you were doing to implement.

Jerald posted that the batteries got so low one time that the charger would not work (that was good) but he got a power supply type charge that allowed him to charge.

He was warned that over discharging could cause dendrites that may perforate the separation layer during future charges and at very least to monitor the battery for temperature or size increases carefully.

As far as Chinese products it is certainly true that quality control on the retail side is very spotty but lots of "quality" American products and/or components are made in China, just the reality of manufacturing costs.

Most of the "drop-in" lithium packs are built with Chinese BMS boards.

When properly implemented Chinese BMS setups can be very safe and certainly way cheaper than some over priced BMS products that offer features that are not needed.
I agree.. big difference between an American product made in China and a Chinese product made in China.

The BMS units sold by most of these online retail shops are just cheap Chinese garbage that barely do what they're supposed to do.

I'm eventually going to swap my LA bats for lithium in my 2013 Precedent when they wear out.. and no way will I be using a Chinese BMS and having that thing charge in my garage.

My off grid system uses 25kWh worth of cells from a Chevy BOLT EV.. and I use a REC BMS. They are in my basement in a 14ga NEMA4x Hoffman enclosure. Might switch to Batrium or Orion when I do the cart.. will probably stick with REC since I'm so familiar with it now.

Here's a pic of the off grid unit.. When I got these cells, they were brand new, never cycled LG Chem. Going to wait for a deal like that to show up again for the golf cart.
A single stack of 14 is about the size of two loafs of bread with a capacity of about 6kWh. Two of them (65lb ea) could easily fit into the battery bay of my cart.. would probably give me 80 miles on a charge.. with the way I drive, I'd only have to charge the cart once a month.

People need to stop trusting Chinese stuff when failure has catastrophic consequences. It just isn't worth the gamble.

Either that, or switch to phosphate batteries.. when they go rogue, its basically just a smoke bomb.
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:16 PM   #108
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

I did a quick search for the REC BMS. For a 5-16 cell BMS it's $750. Then the monitor add's another $250 to it. So if I have that right, it's $1,000 plus perhaps some wiring harness.

The ZEVA unit with the monitor included is about $500.

I guess someone needs to point out the additional benefit of a $500 payout.
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:30 PM   #109
Murby
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

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Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
I did a quick search for the REC BMS. For a 5-16 cell BMS it's $750. Then the monitor add's another $250 to it. So if I have that right, it's $1,000 plus perhaps some wiring harness.

The ZEVA unit with the monitor included is about $500.

I guess someone needs to point out the additional benefit of a $500 payout.
The BMS itself is $315 Euros

I have purchased three of them so far, price hasn't changed.

It will balance at up to 1.3 amps and includes low temp and high temp cut outs.
It will also work with any chemistry, so if you change your pack, you just change the software settings. REC is a "vehicle quality" BMS.

You don't need a monitor, just use a USB cable to a PC or get the BlueTooth dongle.

I have mine hooked up to a Panasonic Toughbook.. I can monitor and control my BMS from almost anywhere through my home's wifi connection via Remote Desktop. Use it on my office PC, tablet, or phone. Of course, with a golf cart you wouldn't need any of that.
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Old 12-04-2020, 04:37 PM   #110
Murby
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Default Re: 48volt club car limthium battery exploded

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
I did a quick search for the REC BMS. For a 5-16 cell BMS it's $750. Then the monitor add's another $250 to it. So if I have that right, it's $1,000 plus perhaps some wiring harness.

The ZEVA unit with the monitor included is about $500.

I guess someone needs to point out the additional benefit of a $500 payout.
By the way, don't get me wrong.. While I have never used a ZEVA, I have heard good things about them.. I have no issues with ZEVA.

I used a REC BMS because of the balance current.. with a 25kWh battery bank, the minuscule 125ma balance current of the ZEVA would never get a 480 AH cell balanced in a reasonable amount of time. But that wouldn't be the case for a small golf cart battery.
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