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Old 04-11-2021, 01:37 AM   #451
Pat911
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

To correct Volt_Ampere slightly, lithium batteries will burn without an EXTERNAL oxygen source. There can be no fire without oxygen, but a damaged lithium cell will produce its own oxygen and that’s the reason a lithium fire is so difficult to extinguish. You cannot simply douse the fire with foam or water to starve it of oxygen.

He is correct about the BMS. It is the last line of defence. When a Lithium pack is used correctly, i.e. charged and discharged within its limits, the BMS should never intervene. You need multiple failures to get yourself into a dangerous situation. Anyone relying on the BMS alone to stop charging, or discharging under normal conditions is asking for trouble.

Lithium cells are very safe when used within their design limits, especially LiFePo4 cells. One must also acknowledge that once a cell is over-charged, or over-discharged, it can no longer be relied upon to be safe.

Cheers
Pat.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:08 AM   #452
DaveTM
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

My cart is in my heated attached garage. That said, my garage has a fireproof door from the rest of the house, no bedroom above it, and I have smoke detectors all over the place.

I have no more fear of a lithium fire than I do of an electrical box fire or a gas hot water tank exploding.

If my pack goes to thermal runaway, I figure I'm not paying attention to the cart and I have bigger issues than the treated wood box they are installed in.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:30 AM   #453
Pat911
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

I wasn’t having a go at the wooden enclosure in regard to fire, just that a wooden box will, in theory, contain heat more than a metal one. But that shouldn’t be a problem as lithium cells shouldn’t heat up. My leaf cells are installed freely in my precedent without a box. Just bolted together and secured. A lithium fire can be so severe that no metal box will contain it.
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Old 04-11-2021, 09:11 AM   #454
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

I have no box around the batteries in either of my carts. Just secured in place with the electronics mounted on top. I do store my small lipos used in my model planes and quadcopters in fireproof boxes. I removed the seals so that the boxes are not airtight. I charge them in one of these boxes too. I have been carefully using lipos in planes for over 15 years and I have never had an issue with them - except for crash damage. :-(
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Old 04-11-2021, 10:43 AM   #455
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

The metal enclosure on my RoyPow had a dedicated pressure relief vent. I haven't noticed the same type on my current pack enclosure however.

I don't think anything is 100% and I'm not an expert on any of this but LifePo4 in a metal box made some sense to me. Lots of options out there though.

Speaking of RC plane batteries, I had a bunch of those batteries too and never had an issue (knocking on wood - I think I still have some of them...). But remember they used to sell (maybe still do?) sealed metalized "charging bags" that were supposed to contain / slow down a fire. Maybe they didn't work, but I bought a few years ago to store the things in.
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Old 04-11-2021, 11:38 AM   #456
WC53
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

I had on of the first gen dewalt 18v chargers explode a battery in my shop. I don’t know how nothing caught fire. Since then, I charge batteries and unplug/have hooked to a timer as an additional safety measure.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:18 PM   #457
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

Quote:
Originally Posted by WC53 View Post
I had on of the first gen dewalt 18v chargers explode a battery in my shop. I don’t know how nothing caught fire. Since then, I charge batteries and unplug/have hooked to a timer as an additional safety measure.
I did the same as you - have a simple switch timer for the power bar that supplies all tool batteries / chargers, and a home automation program monitors cart and e-bike chargers. If either is on after 9:30pm, they go off, and each resume whatever schedule they were on in the a.m.

We live in a community that has a ton of golf carts, and countless fires over the years have been attributed to golf carts and / or their charging (albeit most have been FLA equipped).
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Old 04-11-2021, 01:44 PM   #458
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

I have seen two FLA battery explosions. Made a mess but no fire. You would not want to be standing near one when it goes off though. Sent the cap into the ceiling and split the case down the side so acid went everywhere.
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Old 04-11-2021, 01:59 PM   #459
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

My wooden box in the EZ-GO txt was not so much for fire protection as it is for keeping water away from the pack, the BMS, and other components.

I hunt a lot in the fall and winter and those paths, gas well roads, electric line cuttings are not paved nor do they drain water away in some places. In addition, I've been out when a pouring down rain has occurred. The wooden box has worked fine in all these instances.

I think your setup should be "geared" to your cart's usage.

FWIW
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Old 04-11-2021, 03:24 PM   #460
cmysstailights
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Default Re: Basic Nissan Leaf 7 module Lithium setup with Generic Chinese BMS

I like the conversion. This is my 3rd season with my cart. The issue i see now is a shortage on modules.

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