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Old 06-19-2024, 10:01 PM   #1
Cb750
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Default Robin 295 with issues

A friend if a friend brought me a cart, says he needs a rebuild, because he couldn't get it started. The first thing I did was check the valves, and the lash seemed ok, so I pulled the motor out. When I took the side cover off, I found a broken rod. As far as I know, there's really only one reason for that, which is a lack of oil. However, this engine seemed full of oil, and not fresh clean oil, but used black oil. I checked the oil passages, and they seemed ok. The other rod and crank journal appeared to have a little discolored stripe around it in the middle. Any idea how you could throw a rod without being low on oil? I don't want this rebuild to go bad because I overlooked something.

The other issue is the"good" cylinder, has a line scored in the bike with unusual wear. It looks like the wristpin
retainer came out, wore the piston and scored the cylinder some. It's going to the machine shop in the morning for their opinion, but in the meantime, does anyone know of a list if torque values for this engine?

:edit: I found a rebuild manual (https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15...?page=4#manual) and I'm looking through it to make sure it has the info I need.
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Old 06-20-2024, 09:09 PM   #2
CP241
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

Iíve taken several of these engines apart and found the rod cap bolts loose. Always seems to be the one on the clutch side deeper inside the block.

Theyíll start knocking and if you arenít paying attention theyíll come apart and snap the rod. If you catch it before this happens you can simply torque them down and all is well.

Iíd bet thatís what you see here.
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Old 06-21-2024, 08:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

I've had a couple engines do this same thing. It's usually the cylinder farthest from the oil pump, I call it the "rear cylinder". Not sure on the rod bolt thing, never caught one loose, but if you google you'll see there are 2 main complaints. Loose rod bolts, and clogged filter screens. This engine doesn't have a regular spin on filter. It has a removeable and reuseable filter screen. These engine need frequent oil changes to survive, and if that oil is super black, I'm betting it runs rich and doesn't get serviced.

Torque values will be in the service manual. Try googling the service manual, I usually can find a free download on cart manuals. Definitely go by the book on this one. Also, the cranks tend to wear on these, plan on doing a crank. The last one I had went straight to Motors and More in Appling, GA. Rebuild with new crank was $1000 shipped to my door.
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Old 06-21-2024, 09:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

I found there are oil passages in the crank for bearing oiling that get clogged too. But yeah should be a way to increase oil pressure - that would help.
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Old 06-23-2024, 06:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by slonomo View Post
I've had a couple engines do this same thing. It's usually the cylinder farthest from the oil pump, I call it the "rear cylinder". Not sure on the rod bolt thing, never caught one loose, but if you google you'll see there are 2 main complaints. Loose rod bolts, and clogged filter screens. This engine doesn't have a regular spin on filter. It has a removeable and reuseable filter screen. These engine need frequent oil changes to survive, and if that oil is super black, I'm betting it runs rich and doesn't get serviced.

Torque values will be in the service manual. Try googling the service manual, I usually can find a free download on cart manuals. Definitely go by the book on this one. Also, the cranks tend to wear on these, plan on doing a crank. The last one I had went straight to Motors and More in Appling, GA. Rebuild with new crank was $1000 shipped to my door.
There was a silver kind of sludge in the bottom of the engine when I drained the oil. I assumed it was wear from the rod, buti tried to hose it out with brake clean and a brush, but all that did was smear it around, so I'm betting that's what killed the motor. I did find a service manual with torque values, so that's covered.

Right now the crank is at the machine shop, they are going to hot tank it which they say will remove the aluminum, and then they'll mic it and check for cracks.

The block, head, cam, etc are all clean and ready to reassemble as soon as I get the crank back. The cart was delivered to me with the carb and exhaust off, so I may post up again asking how the rest of that goes together if I can't figure it out on my own.
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Old 06-23-2024, 10:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

I have rebuilt probably 15 of these engines and never once found a rod bolt loose. I do have nine of these engines and three have broke the one rod mentioned. Bolt normally laying in bottom also. I know for a fact that one of these engines had been ran hard and low on oil many times.

What I do know is if you tweak the governor and run them low on oil it will break the rod closest to the drive clutch.

Like Slo said that rod is the farthest away from the oil pump. Low on oil and that rod is robbed of oil therefore it will come apart.

If these rod bolts were common to come loose then why don't the other rod do it ?

Your crank should be fine. I have been told that muriatic acid will clean the aluminum from crank and not hurt it but never tried that. I don't like messing with acid.

How did you get your engine clean ? I got one I need to rebuild now but the outside of it is caked bad and so far I haven't found anything to clean it other than paying a machine shop to put it in their cleaning vat.
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Old 06-24-2024, 07:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

Looking at that second photo, the rod bolts are still in place, so while common, I doubt a loose rod bolt was the issue in this case. Looking at the oil in the bottom of that crank case, it looks like it might be the original oil that came with the cart when it was new. I'm in on the theory of the clogged filter screen/passages, or the owner had a leak at the oil pump plate and replaced that O-ring. You will need to verify the oil pump is still serviceable. I have seen where the oil pump plate needed to be replaced due to wear. Also, the aftermarket rebuild kit oil pump O-rings tend to be fatter than OEM. That plate needs to sit tight against the pump or it won't pull oil and deliver it where it needs to go. Its possible that pump may have been failing. Usually, the cam bearing seat point behind the cam gear fails first when this happens, and the head then requires machining, but they are both steel to machined cast aluminum alloy interface. I'd look closely at the end of the cam and the head for similar aluminum transfer. Good luck with it.
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Old 07-09-2024, 12:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by trig123 View Post

How did you get your engine clean ? I got one I need to rebuild now but the outside of it is caked bad and so far I haven't found anything to clean it other than paying a machine shop to put it in their cleaning vat.
I have a hot tank at work, so I let it soak overnight, put it in the parts washer and knocked off everything I could, then to the bead blaster to get everything I couldn't. Then blow it out, another wash, and blow dry. I also took the fan hub to work so I could sandblast the rust off of it, and now I can't find it.
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Old 07-17-2024, 04:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Robin 295 with issues

It's all back together now.
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