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Old 03-19-2023, 08:14 PM   #1
staffcurtis
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Default Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

I have a 2021 Advanced EV Advent 4L Cart, and I want to upgrade to a Navitas controller and 72 volt lithium pack. I'm getting the speed controller upgrade to limit current from tripping the BMS and locking up the cart. I would like to go 72v to give me the higher speeds I want (over 35mph). Which is the go to lithium brand with the better BMS for higher current draw? I'm thinking the 72v pack will have less current demand than a 48v pack due to the higher voltage. So far I'm leaning ECO or Big Battery but I'm open to suggestions.
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Old 03-19-2023, 11:50 PM   #2
Pat911
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

Yes, 72v will have less current demand than 48v, so it will be easier on the battery. At the moment I’m favouring Eco because of their after sales support, but there’s nothing wrong with BB, just pay close attention to specifications.
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Old 03-20-2023, 05:49 PM   #3
staffcurtis
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

Three BB falcons will have a higher continuous amp rating (80A each so 3x=240A) than the ECO (175A). The Big Battery 3x falcon setup will also cost a little less, but I heard Big Battery has USED cells. Not sure if the ECO batteries do the same or not.
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Old 03-20-2023, 09:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by staffcurtis View Post
Three BB falcons will have a higher continuous amp rating (80A each so 3x=240A) than the ECO (175A). The Big Battery 3x falcon setup will also cost a little less, but I heard Big Battery has USED cells. Not sure if the ECO batteries do the same or not.
Thats the first I heard of an actual legit battery company illegally selling used battery packs as new... Id love to see some evidence of this if there is any?
I wouldnt doubt that they uses non automotive grade cells that many like to label as "grade B" even though no such official grade standard exists but I really dont believe they are used or faulty in any way.
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Old 03-20-2023, 09:38 PM   #5
Pat911
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

Yep, B grade more likely than used. Nothing wrong with B grade in this application, as long as the cost savings are passed on to the consumer.
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Old 03-21-2023, 09:13 PM   #6
staffcurtis
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

Does ECO have new or used lithium batteries in their kits?
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Old 03-21-2023, 10:22 PM   #7
Pat911
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

I think the idea of any legitimate, premium battery manufacturer, like Eco Battery or Big Battery, using second hand cells without specifying so is absurd. The fact that Eco stand behind their product so strongly is a testament to that. Where did you hear that Big Battery were using second hand cells?

Maybe a shonky manufacturer trying to undercut on price might, but their prices would reflect that and chances are they would come in, sell a few batteries and be gone within months to avoid warranty claims. Possibly even coming back under a different name.
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Old 03-22-2023, 06:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

The whole automotive grade /grade b thing scenario is not really unique.
To help put things in perspective.

Decades ago I used to work on Epson wide format printers and plotters.
Well as Epson explained in training the assembly line where the print heads are made puts them under extreme testing and due to the process some test better than others. The ones that passed certian criteria would be sold as grade A print heads that would go into the wide format stylus series machines and be sold as replacement print heads for those as well as other premium photo printers for about $1200 each. Those that did not score as well in the testing because of deflected nozzles or any other issues were sold in the $79 epson home computer printers sold as circuit city at the time with those nozzles not used. We were literally told in a pinch if the correct grade head was on backorder we could temporarily use the head out of one of these cheap $100 printers until a replacement could be obtained.

The same thing happens in pc CPU manufacturing in a way as well as the print heads on the equipment I work on today (only those print heads are much more costly than what I dealt with 25 years ago)
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Old 03-22-2023, 07:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

That is valid. The same was/is done with PC CPU’s. A grade and B grade Lithium batteries are a thing, and there’s nothing wrong with using B grade batteries as long as they meet the specifications for the task at hand. B grade batteries are ok for use in carts as long as they meet current specifications. B grade batteries are new batteries, not used. Staffcurtis has referenced “used” cells twice now. He may mean B grade but used the word “used” again after B grade cells were explained.

BTW, I’m in no way implying that Eco, BB or any other premium manufacturer are using B grade cells. At this point in time I have no idea what cells they are using, but I very much doubt they are using second hand cells.
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Old 03-22-2023, 07:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: Upgrading to Navitas and 72v for speed. Which lithium route should I go?

^same
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