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Old 01-14-2022, 08:30 AM   #1
brianjwilson
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Default G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Hi all. I could really use some help and advice with my new to me cart. I fully upgraded the electrical system of a G19 - 6x8v US Battery pack, 2 gauge cables, XCT48500 controller, heavy duty solenoid and D&D torque motor. The cart is lifted with 22" tires and no known mechanical issues. Yesterday I burned through my second motor. The first one was because I had thought since I purchased the motor and controller from the same shop that it had been programmed, and it had not. Burned through that on day one. So on my second motor, I asked Alltrax to send me a field map and used that for a year, driving the cart 15 - 20 times during the past year. The terrain is steep (~10-15% grade) rolling hills, on pavement or packed gravel, for 2 - 3 miles per day. The cart worked fine all year but would consistently overheat (reach 170+ case temp) and I would need to stop using it to prevent damage. Over the past couple of months it began losing power and making a clicking noise with each revolution. And then yesterday severely lost power and then died completely within a few minutes. I have read, unfortunately after purchasing these two motors, that Alltrax and D&D haven't seen eye-to-eye on field mapping and that Alltrax's field maps exceed certain recommendations by D&D that may be causing this. So my question - am I asking too much for an electric cart on this terrain (I don't think so)? Do I buy another D&D torque motor and ask D&D to send me their own field map? Or do I buy a Plum Quick Gorilla or some other motor that is more powerful and has a field map from Alltrax that they're good with? I just don't want to keep buying $500+ parts that get destroyed in months! I have Alltrax logs, a shunt installed so I can always monitor real-time, temp gauges, etc. - I'm just stumped on why it keeps happening. Thank you for your help!!
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Old 01-14-2022, 08:42 AM   #2
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Strange. I have two carts with D&D motors and they run much cooler than the stock Hitachi motors did. Both are with Alltrax 500Amp controllers. But I set max current to about 350 Amps. I experimented with field maps on my second cart to get more top end speed out of it. My cart runs 70 amps at 25mph on level ground.
I would try a different motor combination since it sounds like your situation requires more torque (heat). My carts are both G29's. One has high speed 9:1 gears with a high torque D&D motor (6 years) and the other has 12.5:1 gears with a high speed D&D (1 year)
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:43 PM   #3
scottyb
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

I second the different motor suggestion. I'm sure PQ has a motor better suited for the cart.
I also reduce the 500 controllers to 450 maximum armature amps to limit heat. Remember not to run the voltage down low as this creates a very high amperage draw and ... lots of heat

Note that one problem I see with the G19-22 cart upgrades is the limited space between the motor mount surface and the rear shock. This distance prohibits the use of long stack high torque motors like the Admiral D4. Move the shock and get the motor you need. GL with the project.
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Old 01-14-2022, 02:21 PM   #4
DaveTM
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Wow....that's surprising. Now, I have a series EZ-GO....but my D&D motor is going on 13 years and I climb some pretty steep grades. (Anywhere up to 35 degree or so).

Heck, here in Southwestern Pa it's odd to get a flat spot of 100 yards or more.
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Old 01-14-2022, 03:52 PM   #5
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Thanks all. Those were my thoughts as well - that the right setup should be able to handle this terrain. I clocked it today and my typical trip is 1 - 2 miles per trip, where that trip has 3 - 4 rolling hills of 10 - 15%. And on pavement, with fully inflated tires. I'm willing to go slow - I just want to be able to put 3 - 4 adults in the cart and be confident that it won't burn up.

ScottyB - that's interesting because while it's tight, I didn't have to move the shock like I've read so much about. So I emailed D&D to ask for confirmation of what their part number / specs for the motor are (the part number on the motor nameplate is ES-24N-14, but that isn't listed on their site as a part number). I'm curious whether what I bought was really their high torque motor, even though that's how it was advertised on the site I purchased it from.

Anyway - I've visited Plum Quick's shop before as I live nearby in Charlotte. Happy to give them business, and their Gorilla seems like the right choice. Just want to make sure there's a proper field map for it so I don't burn up another motor and $700+.
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Old 01-15-2022, 10:31 AM   #6
scottyb
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

All of the D&D ES motors are Engineering Samples or such = custom builds. They should have a record of what the motor was built to do and the all important proper field map for it. If you do not get satisfaction dealing with the original manufacturer contact Chuck at EMP and ask him to take a look at it for a possible remanufacture.
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Old 01-15-2022, 01:58 PM   #7
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

ScottyB - yes I sent D&D the serial number and model from the nameplate and asked them to tell me the specs. Waiting to hear. I removed the motor today just to take a look. Here's what the inside looks like (attached).


A "clip" fell out that you can see me holding - is that a comm bar? I know very little about electric motors. The rest just looked black and sooty, but the shellac seemed like it was fine. And it smelled like a campfire. The last one that burnt up I had brought to Plum Quick and they said they couldn't repair it. But if it could be repaired I'd definitely go that route and then just get the right field map and turn down the RPM, throttle response, etc. in the controller to make it easier on the motor I guess.

Do you have any other motor recommendations? I'd love to find one in stock if possible, but only if it will work OK. That Plum Quick Gorilla at near 16hp seems like a beast. But I also feel like D&D's 502-1 high torque motor (9hp and 40% torque @ 3150rpm) seems like it should be more than adequate. Perhaps the "ES-24N-14" that I bought previously was something I thought was their high torque offering but was really a torque/speed motor. Because I did not have to modify my cart for it to fit - but they do reference needing to do that on the 502-1.
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Old 01-15-2022, 02:00 PM   #8
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

You need to take a look at the commutator and brushes - on the other end from your picture. THat clip may be part of a brush holder.
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Old 01-15-2022, 03:45 PM   #9
brianjwilson
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Thanks. I don't have a socket to get the back of the motor off while I'm here but will do that in a few days when I'm home. So 1) check if those clips are just the brush springs/clips, right. Then 2) check if the insulation on the windings has melted off? I did a continuity check on the windings that I could see and it seemed like the insulation was still fine. Does it tend to melt there, on the other end, or all over / anywhere? If not melted, could it really be that simple that I had some loose or broken brush springs? And could that explain why there was a loss of power? Can the motor work with one brush not engaged, and as a result be lower power? Wow - if it were really that simple to fix that would be awesome. Regardless, I'll be taking it apart just so I can see it because it's cool. But I think I need sockets to remove the back first because I could not lift the rotor out, so assuming there's a bearing back there keeping it from coming out without taking the back off. Thanks so much for your help!
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Old 01-15-2022, 03:50 PM   #10
scottyb
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Default Re: G19 w/ Alltrax XCT48500 burning through D&D torque motors like matches

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere View Post
You need to take a look at the commutator and brushes - on the other end from your picture. THat clip may be part of a brush holder.
Agreed - if that spring clip came out of the motor that could your whole problem with this motor not wanting to run.
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