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Old 03-22-2015, 01:32 PM   #1
Ironworker85
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Default YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

Hey guys im at the point of my custom lift where i have to align for end. I hav read before that the yamahas should b set at 1/8 to in if im correct. Is that measurement off the hubs meaning each hub should be toe in 1/16 or 1/8 each side? Sorry if im asking a question that has already be asked just want to make shur i am setting it up the right way. Thanks guys for the help
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

You will want the cart on a flat surface.Bounce the suspension from the front bumper to settle it.Roll it forward a few feet with the wheels straight.Find a spot on the tires to measure from,choose the same spot ahead and behind the axle,at approx axle height.A good marking trick is a nail thru a board,and jack up the tire,spin it,and lightly scribe the tire.Measure from your mark on one tire to the other tire ahead of the axle,then repeat on the opposite side.Toe-in is when the front is narrower than the rear measurement.Look for approx.1/8". Hope this helps.
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Old 03-22-2015, 08:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

I used a 12 foot piece of flat steel, held it up to the rim/bead area so that 6 feet was in front and 6 feet was in back. Mark those spots on the concrete. Repeat for other side. Mark the exact center of the front/nose of the cart. Now measure from your marks to the center on each side. Find dead straight. Toe in just a hair, almost straight but toed in a tad. Make sure both sides are the same. Run it, go over bumps, etc. Come back and recheck and adjust if needed.

I would be sure your "stock" shocks are in good order, if they are soft, your camber will surely be on "auto adjust" and you'll never get it right and it will never stay. Also, if you are using long travel atv stocks, make sure they are stiff enough to withstand the wheel scrub in reverse. If they are too soft your camber will change when you back up on concrete.
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Old 03-23-2015, 06:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

Thanks guys i am goin thro that soft coilover issue right now. I did a 8" lift and got new coil overs for rear and tryed using the stock rear shocks in front end but i think with the added weight and being so old the just dont hav wat it takes to hold the front end up. I am looking into a set of 400 ex shocks or a heavier set of springs for front lenght is not a problm right now i have the top shock mount only tacked in place cause i had a feeling i would b adjusting it. When i stand on front end now it squats and only returns very little.
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Old 03-24-2015, 07:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

Put it in the grass or dirt and stand on the front end. Does it spring back up now?

You see, the tire scrub against the concrete when the suspension is compressed all the way. They go to this position / \ then when you let off the bumper, the tires are actually gripping the concrete surface and will "stick" and resist the tires from sliding back into this position | |

It's called tire scrub. And it's why the single a arm system doesn't work with lots of travel. The arms are too short and allow too much camber change. When the camber changes, the tires actually move side to side on the ground, rather than up and down.

This type of suspension is good for about 2" of travel, 1" up and 1" down. Any more than that and it will not handle correctly and be unsafe. Look up "Chevrolet Corvair" and read about why that car was discontinued by law.

I would advise against using atv shocks. They have more travel and will only make the camber problem worse. Been there done that. Many have done it, and still do, but it is not an improvement in handling. Going slow off road is not a problem. If you plan on doing any type of on road driving, especially at speed, this suspension setup can cause an accident. The steering gets very "squirelly" and it will feel unsteady. With good stock shocks it will be much better. With atv shocks it will be dangerous.

My opinion.
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

Slo,I can argue the Off-Road worthyness of Yamaha type suspensions to a point.Look at Ford IFS,and most of the older Baja/Stadium-Type trucks.They all used a similar design.They aren't as good as a good Dual A-Arm,but they work well,are strong,and handle well at most speeds.For some reason,The G1 has quirks which we have discussed at length on this forum,it seems to be the only model with drastic issues compared to G2-up.I think it was SmallBlock(Dave) that told me there were 3-different steering-arm/control-arm combinations used on the G1,where-as the other models have 1(many very similar,if not the same).The 400ex shocks work good,we have done quite a bit with them,and are happy with the results.Just my 2-cents.
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

When i compressed front it was in front of my barn witch is mostly grass and rock. I dont think the tires r wats holdin it from returning i think the old shocks r week plus i widened the front end and moved the lower shock mount further in on the arm adding extra leverage on the shocks. Wat kind of shocks would u guys recomend i use? I am looking for something stiff enuff to hold front end up and still give me a little travel
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

Quote:
Originally Posted by pachanga90 View Post
Slo,I can argue the Off-Road worthyness of Yamaha type suspensions to a point.Look at Ford IFS,and most of the older Baja/Stadium-Type trucks.They all used a similar design.They aren't as good as a good Dual A-Arm,but they work well,are strong,and handle well at most speeds.For some reason,The G1 has quirks which we have discussed at length on this forum,it seems to be the only model with drastic issues compared to G2-up.I think it was SmallBlock(Dave) that told me there were 3-different steering-arm/control-arm combinations used on the G1,where-as the other models have 1(many very similar,if not the same).The 400ex shocks work good,we have done quite a bit with them,and are happy with the results.Just my 2-cents.
Pachanga, no disrespect. But here's my argument.

The off road IFS systems all use longer ibeams and strut arms that move the mounting point past center. In other words, the G1 arms mount closer to the outside from center vs. mounting way over toward the opposite side. The G1 "swing arms" (they technically are A shaped swing arms) are say 12" long. The off road IFS suspensions have strut arms/beams that are 40" long. Those are different setups. They work differently and offer less camber change with 1/2 travel movements. The G1 will have lots of camber change with very little movements. I had an F150 that I put a high lift long travel kit. It was something like 10" lift and 12" travel or something. Used dual shocks. It did very well off road. On road it was not that great. It had bump steer from the camber change. Different animal, different argument. The length of the arm/beam in ifs suspensions has a direct relationship to the camber change. The longer the arm, the less camber change. The shorter the arm the more camber change. Unfortunately the G1 has short arms, so that equals more camber change. Camber change = poor handling.

I agree with you that the G1 is a different animal. That's why I don't recommend trying to modify what doesn't work well to begin with. These carts are old and were designed for flat terrain with very little suspension movement. They do that well. Anything high speed with long travel is a deadly combo on the G1 a arms. Stay under 20 mph and stay on grass/mud and you'll do well. If you read my post, I said off road at low speeds is ok. Where I think it's dangerous is higher speeds on pavement.

I'm not saying you cant off road a G1. Not saying you can't use atv shocks. Just telling it like it is, and what you'll get. If the handling you get from 400ex shocks on a G1 is "good handling" to you, then go for it. But to me, it's not. I may be a bit more picky than most. But I have real off road racing experience that makes me picky. If I put hours into something, I want a good return. I've tried 4 different atv shock combos, different mounting positions and angles, different wheel spacers, different wheels, different tires. With all that, I ended up with something that was inferior to an atv front suspension. No return on my investment in time. So, I went with an atv front suspension. LOL Solved all my problems. Yes it was difficult because there is no kit for a G1. But all the hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars I spent was worth it to me. One ride on this G1 and you'll agree.

First pic = stock G1 with atv shocks
*short a arms, lots of travel, lots of camber change

Second pic = G1 with custom long travel ifs
*long a arms, lots of travel, much less camber change
*also notice the heavier Raptor 660 front shocks used here vs. 400ex shocks

Third pic = Ford type long travel ifs
*long beams, lots of travel, lower amount of camber change.

Video 1 = Bronco long travel kit
*long beams, lots of travel, still has some camber change and bump steer

Video 2 = EZGO with long travel kit
*super long a arms, long shocks, gobs of travel, no camber change or bump steer
*this is the only way to go IMHO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b07Eb7B8tHs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F4t07ploQo
Attached Images
File Type: jpg G1 stock arms.jpg (91.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg g1 long arm.jpg (81.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg hnm-slider-ranger-ibeam.jpg (97.1 KB, 0 views)
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironworker85 View Post
When i compressed front it was in front of my barn witch is mostly grass and rock. I dont think the tires r wats holdin it from returning i think the old shocks r week plus i widened the front end and moved the lower shock mount further in on the arm adding extra leverage on the shocks. Wat kind of shocks would u guys recomend i use? I am looking for something stiff enuff to hold front end up and still give me a little travel
Ok, here's what I'd do if I were you. I would find a good used set of rear shocks from an atv, sport model like the 400ex. They will be larger than the stock shocks, so you'll have but fabricate top mounts. Set the height with the preload all the way soft, and set it up with just a tad bit of positive camber / \ like this, just a little. Then when you load it up, it will go level. The higher spring rate of the "rear" atv shocks will be more able to handle loads like passengers or wood or a trailer.

If you use "front" shocks from a smaller sport atv, the spring rates will be too soft for anything other than smoother woods riding. If you hit any kind of large bumps at speed, the suspension will bottom out and you will get bad handling at speed. Those 400ex or z400 front shocks are long, but very soft. As soon as you get in, they move. When a passenger gets in, they squat. When you have gear to haul, they squat even more. Try driving that cart with wheels that look like this / \ it's awful! It won't steer right and rides like crap. Very dangerous.

I used Raptor 660 rear shocks on the front of mine, yes it's stiff, but it holds the front up nicely. I still get some travel, enough to tolerate bumps. Still better than stock golf cart. Yes, I have a dual a arm setup. But they will work with any suspension. Might be on the stiff side. Go with the 400ex rears, they are lighter rate springs. Or z400 or warrior rear shocks will also work. If you want less spring rate, go with 300ex rears or trx250 rears. All will be stiffer than the fronts of the 400ex.

Sport atv front shocks were designed to carry little weight on a dual a arm setup. IMO they are unsuitable for a single a arm golf cart that weights twice as much. Seriously, the 400ex weighs 400lbs vs G1 is like 700-800lbs. Most sport atv riders ride alone, most golf carts will have 2-4 people aboard at times. Just not the right shock.

Here's where people go wrong with the G1:
They try to add long travel shocks....to get more travel....to soften the ride. The do get more travel, but also get massive camber change. This camber change creates terrible handling and ride characteristics when in real off road situations. I just don't advise this.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: YamahaG1 correct way to align frontend after lift

It appears that the 300ex and 250ex have the same rear shock.

It also appears that the 400ex rear shock is a funky animal.

First pic = 400ex rear

Second pic = 300ex 250ex rear

Third pic = Warrior rear

Fourth pic = Raptor rear (what I used)

Fifth pic = 400ex front (tried those)

The coils on the rear shocks are larger, and larger coils = more load capacity and better extreme handling for bumps and ruts. They will only have about 3" of stroke, but for a G1, 3" of shock movement is quite a lot, that will equate to 5" at the wheels. You won't likely get max travel with that shock unless you are loaded down all the way. The 400ex shocks I think will have 6" of stroke, and 8" of travel at the wheels. The rear shocks are usually 12-14" eye to eye. The fronts will be 14-17" eye to eye. Smaller shocks are easier to fit. You might not even have to move the mounts if you can match up the size of the shock.


Sometimes you have to try something to see how it goes. It's called R&D. Sometimes money is wasted doing R&D for the sake of the sport. However, you can always sell the shocks on fleabay if they don't work out for you. I usually have minimal losses doing this.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 400ex rear shock.jpg (46.8 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 300ex rear shock.jpg (180.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg warrior rear shock.jpg (78.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg raptor rear.jpg (206.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 400ex fronts.jpg (299.2 KB, 0 views)
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