08-21-2021, 05:29 PM | #1 |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 27
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Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
So I'm getting a new icon i60l 440a/5kw setup and was going to put a bigbattery.com HSKY 48v lifep04 in it. Big battery told me HSKY has a 130ah cont discharge capability where the 2x NMC 48v packs would be 100ah cont rated, so they recommended spending more on the HSKY.
First, anyone try this HSKY or the 2xNMC 48v bigbattery.com batteries on an i60l loaded with adults? I don't want BMS shut downs on hills when loaded. Any other opinions on the brand and battery construction? Next... The dealer is really nervous about it and having the e/p-brake engage and throw me out the windshield if it were to run out of juice. I guess by default is that if power is cut, electronic brake is engaged. Does anyone know if there is a workaround on this yet? I wouldn't mind just pushing a switch to arm the brake when I park if there is a way to wire around the "If no power - engage brake" logic of either the wiring or the controller. I saw another user on here put a Navitas in just to avoid this potential disaster of a parking brake if the batteries shut off. I guess Navitas has a workaround in the controller to never allow the battery to just shut off or something. I sure as heck don't want to throw my passengers out the windshield. Thanks Icon fiddlers. |
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08-23-2021, 05:00 PM | #2 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 671
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
I thought the controller has logic in it to prevent the eBrake from engaging while the cart is moving, provided there is some power. It also has logic where you can set the upper/lower voltage limits and it goes into "limp mode". I would think that if you tuned that setting correctly, you could mitigate a total power loss at high speed causing the eBrake to lock supposedly? The lithium packs don't just go from 100% to 0%, they still have a voltage drop I thought.
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08-23-2021, 05:26 PM | #3 |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 27
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
I always thought of a typical BMS does a complete shut off if there was a cell issue (too high/low) or a peak discharge spike that was above the batteries tolerance limits.
Actually with regen carts I've heard of issues where there is a charge spike (steep hill fully loaded) if the BMS/battery isn't capable of taking the charge as well. |
08-24-2021, 01:12 PM | #4 | |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 671
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Quote:
I'd imagine even with a stock cart, if you had a loose battery cable or something and hit a bump and had a total loss of power...I just can't imagine that would go overlooked. I'd guess there are speed thresholds. I actually recall the dealer saying the eBrake was just a little piece of metal or something and it could be broken if you were too rough with it, so I'd lean towards a failure like that happening you'd just end up with a broken eBrake. |
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08-31-2021, 04:35 PM | #5 |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 27
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Good point on the loose cable but this is my understanding, and I’ve heard of it happening. Just ordered 3x 56ah packs to try and combat the potential of a Shut down a little on a couple carts. Big battery says they are 180ah cont and 386ah Max (6 seconds). If I upgrade to 4th one which is a drop in it would be 252ah cont and 506ah peak. I’ll let you know how it goes I suppose.
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08-31-2021, 05:18 PM | #6 | |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 671
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Quote:
I think I'd put some attention to asking around about the parking brake that gets engaged. That might be the key to everything. If it's just a little ratchet-style, it might just break off in the event that happened. If it's a pin that gets inserted somewhere, it might do the same or it might just not engage because the cart is moving too fast and it can't align? Then I'd be curious the repair effort/cost. It might be a cheap part and easy fix, then you'd have peace of mind. No clue though. |
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09-08-2021, 06:16 PM | #7 |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 27
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Well, I've heard horrific stories of people getting thrown out of their seat, so I doubt it breaks off.
There is another thread on here somehwere that someone thought was a loose nut, they tightend it and then the parking break wouldn't let off They loosened it and it went back to normal (ie lock up on power off). |
09-09-2021, 10:15 AM | #8 | |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 671
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Quote:
Same thought though that it would break off at speed. I only say this because my dealer told me to be careful with the eBrake because it could break off if I was too hard with it and that it was only a little piece of metal. Him saying this made me think another cart owner broke his off. Again, I have no other information regarding the eBrake other than those comments from my dealer. |
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09-09-2021, 11:29 AM | #9 |
Getting Wild
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Port st Lucie Florida
Posts: 80
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Left my dealer a little while a go and question the mechanic about the E brake unfortunately they are a new dealer and haven't had time to look into this concern. He did say one thing the easiest way to avoid this is keep and eye on the battery level of charge
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09-11-2021, 09:41 AM | #10 | |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 27
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Re: Parking brake e-brake safety issue with lithium shut off
Quote:
The issues with lithium is that a lot of the battery manufacturers don't have a good SOC meter. Usually one that plugs into the BMS to the cell level is what I think makes a good meter. Heck the Lead acid one on the icon is pretty bad as well. Next issue is folks who don't pay attention. Ever heard of someone running out of gas? Now imagine that means your cars breaks lock up if it happens on a highway that would be pretty bad for the owner and the manufacturer. Unlike Lead acid which keeps giving voltage and weaning down, a lithium pack can just "shut off" if it reaches a dangerous level, activating the parking break and causing a major issue. I'm told the navitas controller is the work around and can be programmed. I personally just bought a pack that is 3x the size I think I would ever use and watch the voltage drop of the packs as they sit. |
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