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Old 12-01-2022, 11:13 PM   #1
Midiman
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Default Motor size vs run time trade off?

Two identical lithium carts riding side by side. Only difference is one has a stock DC motor/ controller running with the pedal to the floor. The other cart has an AC 5kw motor/ 600 watt controller programmed to match the speed of first cart. Which cart is using more battery? A lot more? A wash?
I can’t find the answers to this, and it would really help me to decide how much a motor upgrade/ conversion to gain the potential to go faster might effect my run time.
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Old 12-02-2022, 12:52 AM   #2
CP241
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

The biggest factor in run time is going to be driving habits (how hard you accelerate), terrain (pavement vs grass, flat vs hills, etc).

That said, once you’re at cruising speed an AC motor will be more efficient due to design and how the magnetism inside the motor itself actually works to make it move.
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Old 12-02-2022, 08:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

Thanks for the info, especially the last sentence. Efficiency is where I want to be. Does that efficiency also exist if I am running the motor dialed back? And does running a bigger motor at lower rpm shorten its life expectancy?
This all stems from messing up my first cart purchase. I went all out for glitz and glam only relying on my eyes and the dealers sales pitch. Ended up with a new monster 6” lifted cart with off road tires and lead acid batteries. Looked mean and awesome. We are on paved roads only, mostly flat with divets where they run utilities under the road. In the end, my parents and grandkids couldn’t reach to climb up into the back, the front tires were bald in 8 months from road use, it was so loud from the knobbies on the pavement, it was so stiff you would lose a kidney when you hit a divet at speed, and it would be good for one beach run and then needed to go on the charger for the afternoon.
Sold it and got a used Precedent stock. We love the ride, the ease of getting in and out and the quietness. I am switching over to lithium to get the distance which is my priority. That’s the one thing I am confident in. Thing is I still want a performance cart, but I don’t want to sacrifice comfort and distance for vanity. I don’t want to upgrade my cart into the beast I ended up selling. So I want to know I have speed and torque under the hood if I need it but not if I lose a lot of battery life. I want to know the motor will turn higher rpm’s but not burn up if I only use it in the grandpa setting. I want a gentle 3” lift, but not if it makes it a stiff jarring suspension. I want a performance luxury road cart in the end, not an off-road monster truck.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:04 AM   #4
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

I’d say you want to buy the biggest lithium pack your wallet withstand. I’d consider 72v if you’re going AC anyway. I’d recommend reaching out to David hicks at revolution golf cars and he should be able to sell you everything you need, except the lithium pack. He’s a great guy and won’t sell you anything you don’t need just to make a buck.

I’d say navitas ac kit, all sports lift, and probably the eco battery 72v lithium will give you everything you need and then some. I think they have a 150aH 72v kit that should get you more range than you’d ever be able to use in a day.
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Old 12-02-2022, 11:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

Some good info in this thread as well

https://www.buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=186832
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Old 12-02-2022, 04:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

Everything CP said!

An AC induction motor is 20 to 40% more efficient than a DC motor. The brushes in the DC motor account for a lot of the efficiency loss.

If you are on the wall about which to go with, simply fall off the wall on the AC side. You won't regret it.

I wish I had gone to AC drive several years ago when I was physically and financially able to do it.
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

I can't offer any real world AC motor experience, but found the following article interesting:

https://www.automate.org/tech-papers...r-golf-buggies
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Old 12-07-2022, 08:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

Thanks for the replies everyone. CP241, I found a thread that you were part of that talked about battery usage running pedal down vs running half speed and the whether or not it generates heat that causes motor failure (Is it true? Low speed causes motor failure?) That thread answered a lot of what I was getting to in my question also.
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Old 12-07-2022, 11:07 AM   #9
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midiman View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone. CP241, I found a thread that you were part of that talked about battery usage running pedal down vs running half speed and the whether or not it generates heat that causes motor failure (Is it true? Low speed causes motor failure?) That thread answered a lot of what I was getting to in my question also.
No. Low speed does not cause motor failure. Or controller failure. Or any kind of failure except maybe failure of fun. It’s a lot more fun to go fast
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Old 12-07-2022, 12:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Motor size vs run time trade off?

To my understanding , higher loads and lower speed will cause heat to build up in an electric motor ... in any electric motor whether it be AC, series, sepex, etc. If the heat builds up and is not removed (such as in a high load, low rpm case), the motor life can be detrimentally affected.

Have a read of this article for more background ... it start out stating:
"Overheating is one of the leading causes of winding and bearing failure within an electric motor."
and
"Research conducted by EASA shows that when the operating temperature increases just 10°C, the motor’s lifespan is cut in half. Alternatively, when the operating temperature is decreased by 10°C, the lifespan is doubled."

See: https://www.emotorsdirect.ca/knowled...is-overheating
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