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Old 06-24-2022, 09:17 AM   #1
fstop
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Default Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Eco Battery looks to be a pretty solid player lately on the lithium pack front, but I noticed one of their latest additions, a "72v" battery, is actually only using 22 cells -vs- 24 cells used by all the other solutions I've seen available.

They list the nominal voltage as 70.4, so they aren't hiding this fact by any means, but the model number is 72xxxx and it is being referred to as a 72v battery. It's close, but there is a difference in that it is around 6.6v lower in total than the other (Extreme team, custom, RoyPow, etc...) 72v LifePo4 24 cell solutions.

I emailed to make sure I had this right, and they verified it was a 22 cell pack, and their reasoning makes some sense - it is because high regen, plus high charge levels, plus hilly terrain may make for situations where voltages get too high and they mention that controllers could potentially be damaged in such situations.

RoyPow includes a resistor as their solution, but is actually a 24 cell pack. I think Extreme Team is just a straight 24 cell pack, w/out any special accommodation for potential excessive voltage.

These batteries are often paired with the Navitas controller / motor, which is spec'd as being compatible with 72v.

Performance wise, I'd expect the Eco Battery "72v" unit to very slightly under-perform when compared to 24 cell packs, but in use cases where regen settings are high, and / or driving is in hilly terrain, at times with near-100% charge states, it could provide a safety buffer other solutions (except the RoyPow) might not offer.

Would also allow their pack to be a tick lighter I would think.
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Old 06-24-2022, 04:23 PM   #2
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

You would need a different charger also to handle 22 cells.
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:35 PM   #3
fstop
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Yes - that also.
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Old 07-13-2022, 07:08 PM   #4
blaster3500
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

I called Navitas to ask about this voltage issue. They stated that there is no issue with a 72v pack and their controller. He said most likely it was BMS issue on their end.
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Old 07-14-2022, 06:34 AM   #5
Eco Battery
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstop View Post
Eco Battery looks to be a pretty solid player lately on the lithium pack front, but I noticed one of their latest additions, a "72v" battery, is actually only using 22 cells -vs- 24 cells used by all the other solutions I've seen available.

They list the nominal voltage as 70.4, so they aren't hiding this fact by any means, but the model number is 72xxxx and it is being referred to as a 72v battery. It's close, but there is a difference in that it is around 6.6v lower in total than the other (Extreme team, custom, RoyPow, etc...) 72v LifePo4 24 cell solutions.

I emailed to make sure I had this right, and they verified it was a 22 cell pack, and their reasoning makes some sense - it is because high regen, plus high charge levels, plus hilly terrain may make for situations where voltages get too high and they mention that controllers could potentially be damaged in such situations.

RoyPow includes a resistor as their solution, but is actually a 24 cell pack. I think Extreme Team is just a straight 24 cell pack, w/out any special accommodation for potential excessive voltage.

These batteries are often paired with the Navitas controller / motor, which is spec'd as being compatible with 72v.

Performance wise, I'd expect the Eco Battery "72v" unit to very slightly under-perform when compared to 24 cell packs, but in use cases where regen settings are high, and / or driving is in hilly terrain, at times with near-100% charge states, it could provide a safety buffer other solutions (except the RoyPow) might not offer.

Would also allow their pack to be a tick lighter I would think.
We chose 22S for a variety of reasons. Footprint was a big one, as well as keeping the voltage ~80V at full charge/regen.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the performance. We tested several other 24S packs and feel our 22S packs are right on par. We have some pretty cool integrations coming soon, Iíll share more in a few weeks as we get closer on them.

We should have the profile for this battery available soon in the Navitas app, but for now you can use any 72V profile or manually set the nominal voltage to 70V.

Happy to answer any questions about it.
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Old 07-19-2022, 03:50 PM   #6
fstop
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by blaster3500 View Post
I called Navitas to ask about this voltage issue. They stated that there is no issue with a 72v pack and their controller. He said most likely it was BMS issue on their end.
I've used a 24s true 72v pack for almost 2 years now with the Navitas w/out any issues related to voltage and or heat.

The main issue that Eco Battery might be addressing is one relating to high regen settings and / or hilly terrain - especially with 100% SOC. Never heard of the Navitas controllers having issues with higher voltages (at some point it was mentioned somewhere they should function properly with 96v...), but it is certainly possible I suppose.

Even with 23" tires, I've never had an issue with an actual 72v pack, but 2 things that could be important - I don't use very high regen levels, and I don't have hilly terrain.

Using only 22 cells would be cheaper, smaller and lighter, while having about 92% of the power -vs- a 24 cell pack.

Or put another way, using 3.2v / cell as a reference, a 105 AH 22 cell pack is 7,392 KWh, while a 105 AH 24 cell pack is 8,064 KWh.
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Old 07-28-2022, 09:56 AM   #7
blaster3500
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco Battery View Post
We chose 22S for a variety of reasons. Footprint was a big one, as well as keeping the voltage ~80V at full charge/regen.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the performance. We tested several other 24S packs and feel our 22S packs are right on par. We have some pretty cool integrations coming soon, Iíll share more in a few weeks as we get closer on them.

We should have the profile for this battery available soon in the Navitas app, but for now you can use any 72V profile or manually set the nominal voltage to 70V.

Happy to answer any questions about it.
I understand the footprint and realize there is probably little performance difference. Can you comment on the Navitas regen issue? I chatted with Navitas tech and they said there would be no issue with a true 72v pack.
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Old 08-11-2022, 04:29 PM   #8
gsher
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eco Battery View Post
We chose 22S for a variety of reasons. Footprint was a big one, as well as keeping the voltage ~80V at full charge/regen.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the performance. We tested several other 24S packs and feel our 22S packs are right on par. We have some pretty cool integrations coming soon, Iíll share more in a few weeks as we get closer on them.

We should have the profile for this battery available soon in the Navitas app, but for now you can use any 72V profile or manually set the nominal voltage to 70V.

Happy to answer any questions about it.
when you say you have cool integrations coming soon, will these be available to early adopters of the 70volt battery? waiting to hear what these integrations will be
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Old 08-11-2022, 04:44 PM   #9
Dallas@Eco Battery
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Default Re: Eco Battery "72v" battery is not typical 72v - Uses only 22 cells

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsher View Post
when you say you have cool integrations coming soon, will these be available to early adopters of the 70volt battery? waiting to hear what these integrations will be
All of our Gen 2 type batteries (including your 70 volt) come with the capability to connect with them through the app once it is released. So anyone that has already received a battery will have the same features as someone that receives their battery after the app is released. The hardware is there.
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