Vc 460

raydhd · 08-05-2018, 07:41 PM

No I measured correctly from the wrist pin center and it was exactly .900. I also measure the original cast VC dished.It was exactly 1.100. I ignored the description NR had written leaped before I looked at the idea of getting the long not available forged piston and ended up losing shipping for both ways. Thankfully Russell didn't charge me the restocking fee on top of everything else.

raydhd · 08-05-2018, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shepard

Well your really going to hate this. After a ton of reading I have come to the conclusion that whoever labeled the boxes for NR's forged pistons did a piss poor job. If HotRod's writers are correct the compression height of a piston is measured from the top of the piston to the center of the wrist pin. The forged piston from NR has a measurement of .620 from the top of the piston to the top of the wrist pin hole -- they forgot to add the wrist pin numbers. This brings the compression height of NR's forged piston to 1.0135 ---- the number for the rod length from my earlier post was 1.021. Bottom line --- NR's forged piston is .0065 short of a perfectly zero height. I'm ordering the ARC long rod NR's selling.. It has the dipper lube system.

It is the VC rod for $119.The ARC rods even from ARC are $149. And doing the reverse math the .0065 short of zero deck is correct. How are you going to make up for all the lost compression with that large amount of deck clearance ? Check ARC's site. They don't make a 4.510 rod.I am not trying to throw cold water on your project. I am trying to point out what happened with the actual parts mock assembled.

Shepard · 08-05-2018, 10:28 PM

http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/451brod.htm -- I believe it's new/old stock and whoever's made it uses ARC's dipper lube system. The sales print reads the same as ARC's rod. I'll let you know when it gets here. As far as the 6 and a half thousandths of an inch difference -- I could try a copper head gasket or mill the head down.

raydhd · 08-06-2018, 05:08 AM

Well we will see,I don't see the ARP 12 point cap screw bolts nor the very different air scoop shaped oiling fin rather the flat faced hook of the VC rod. Anyway I am sure you will figure something. Here are some pics of the big end of the ARC rod

Shepard · 08-06-2018, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raydhd

Well we will see,I don't see the ARP 12 point cap screw bolts nor the very different air scoop shaped oiling fin rather the flat faced hook of the VC rod. Anyway I am sure you will figure something. Here are some pics of the big end of the ARC rod

Didn't the first or second series 460 have an ARC rod? I curious how you got the .900 compression height? Because the piston wasn't properly labeled there is a lot of confusion.

raydhd · 08-06-2018, 06:29 AM

The first series 460's had the cast rod with a 7mm dished piston.That is the engine I started with. The second series had the ARC rod with the same dished piston. I bought the ARC rod to upgrade to this.BUT before I installed it the third series had the VC produced 4.510 with the milled flat top piston came out.I did beta testing putting the new piston/rod set up in the older VC 460.That is where my whole Vc460 build started. Have you pulled the cylinder heads off both your engines ? If you have the dished piston in one of them that is a series 2 engine with the ARC rod.Unless of course you have 2 series 3 engines which have the milled flat tops.Russell incorrectly states that the flat forged will increase your compression ratio where actually it lessens it.BUT with the old forged pistons with the 1.100 compression height that would have been correct.

raydhd · 08-06-2018, 08:55 AM

With all this engine talk I did another 20 hour oil change. That comes to 270 hours on my VC 460 and 102 hours on the long rod conversion. AND wow 630 hours on my G14 cart itself.

Shepard · 08-06-2018, 01:49 PM

I've had the heads off of both engines when I replaced the clone valves with stainless valves and split keepers. The first engine has a dished piston and it had a milled head which was replaced with a stock head. This is the engine that my blower will go on when its finished. The second engine has a flat top piston and a stock head with stainless valves and split keepers. Both engines have roller rockers, 1.3 to 1 ratio Gage Blue rockers and NR's new steel rockers. Both have corrected length push rods. They [VC] have changed the line list a few times -- cost - reliability - ease of assembly.

raydhd · 08-06-2018, 02:21 PM

Your blower engine has the shorter ARC rod and the other the longer VC rod. With the blower engine you might want to use the NR forged piston to lower the compression ratio and have the strongest rod/ piston combo. It might be that everything falls into specs that are perfect for you.

sho305 · 08-06-2018, 07:03 PM

.0065 I thought the rod (and other parts) stretched longer than that. I had to take about .100 off my stock 420 piston to fit the VC rod. It was dished, and that took off the dish and just barely a little more just enough to clean up the center. Since my head was cut .050 and I lost the dish I put that huge head gasket on VC had, .060 or whatever it was. Originally I had a thin metal gasket. I think I could run a normal gasket I get no pinging or anything, but only run a small advance key too. But it runs nice not going to take it apart yet for no good reason. IIRc my piston was very close to deck, might have been a hair above but so close I didn't worry about it with that monster gasket on there. It might have been cut a few thou less than .100 I'd have to look and see if I wrote it down.

08-05-2018, 07:41 PM	#831
raydhd VC 460 CLONE GONE WILD Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ray BY The Bay NJ Posts: 10,642	Re: Vc 460 No I measured correctly from the wrist pin center and it was exactly .900. I also measure the original cast VC dished.It was exactly 1.100. I ignored the description NR had written leaped before I looked at the idea of getting the long not available forged piston and ended up losing shipping for both ways. Thankfully Russell didn't charge me the restocking fee on top of everything else.

08-05-2018, 10:28 PM	#833
Shepard Crazy Ole Man Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Owego NY Posts: 2,758	Re: Vc 460 http://www.nrracing.com/product-p/451brod.htm -- I believe it's new/old stock and whoever's made it uses ARC's dipper lube system. The sales print reads the same as ARC's rod. I'll let you know when it gets here. As far as the 6 and a half thousandths of an inch difference -- I could try a copper head gasket or mill the head down.

08-06-2018, 06:29 AM	#836
raydhd VC 460 CLONE GONE WILD Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ray BY The Bay NJ Posts: 10,642	Re: Vc 460 The first series 460's had the cast rod with a 7mm dished piston.That is the engine I started with. The second series had the ARC rod with the same dished piston. I bought the ARC rod to upgrade to this.BUT before I installed it the third series had the VC produced 4.510 with the milled flat top piston came out.I did beta testing putting the new piston/rod set up in the older VC 460.That is where my whole Vc460 build started. Have you pulled the cylinder heads off both your engines ? If you have the dished piston in one of them that is a series 2 engine with the ARC rod.Unless of course you have 2 series 3 engines which have the milled flat tops.Russell incorrectly states that the flat forged will increase your compression ratio where actually it lessens it.BUT with the old forged pistons with the 1.100 compression height that would have been correct.

08-06-2018, 08:55 AM	#837
raydhd VC 460 CLONE GONE WILD Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ray BY The Bay NJ Posts: 10,642	Re: Vc 460 With all this engine talk I did another 20 hour oil change. That comes to 270 hours on my VC 460 and 102 hours on the long rod conversion. AND wow 630 hours on my G14 cart itself.

08-06-2018, 01:49 PM	#838
Shepard Crazy Ole Man Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Owego NY Posts: 2,758	Re: Vc 460 I've had the heads off of both engines when I replaced the clone valves with stainless valves and split keepers. The first engine has a dished piston and it had a milled head which was replaced with a stock head. This is the engine that my blower will go on when its finished. The second engine has a flat top piston and a stock head with stainless valves and split keepers. Both engines have roller rockers, 1.3 to 1 ratio Gage Blue rockers and NR's new steel rockers. Both have corrected length push rods. They [VC] have changed the line list a few times -- cost - reliability - ease of assembly.

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08-06-2018, 02:21 PM	#839
raydhd VC 460 CLONE GONE WILD Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ray BY The Bay NJ Posts: 10,642	Re: Vc 460 Your blower engine has the shorter ARC rod and the other the longer VC rod. With the blower engine you might want to use the NR forged piston to lower the compression ratio and have the strongest rod/ piston combo. It might be that everything falls into specs that are perfect for you.

08-06-2018, 07:03 PM	#840
sho305 Vegas modded 420 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: West MI Posts: 15,445	Re: Vc 460 .0065 I thought the rod (and other parts) stretched longer than that. I had to take about .100 off my stock 420 piston to fit the VC rod. It was dished, and that took off the dish and just barely a little more just enough to clean up the center. Since my head was cut .050 and I lost the dish I put that huge head gasket on VC had, .060 or whatever it was. Originally I had a thin metal gasket. I think I could run a normal gasket I get no pinging or anything, but only run a small advance key too. But it runs nice not going to take it apart yet for no good reason. IIRc my piston was very close to deck, might have been a hair above but so close I didn't worry about it with that monster gasket on there. It might have been cut a few thou less than .100 I'd have to look and see if I wrote it down.