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Electric EZGO Electric EZ GO Marathon, Medalist, TXT and RXV.



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Old 03-23-2013, 10:41 PM   #1
shrpshtr
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Default riddle me this Batman

ok, i am a little confused here about the performance of my cart. i had a set of basic black steel 8" wheels and 22" tires ( 22x11x08 ). i was getting about 13.9-15.1mph on relatively flat ground depending on going up or down very slight grade (not measurable). i also had very little torque trying to go up any grade greater than maybe 15-20% and stalling on any grade over 20%. i adjusted the air pressure to 5lbs (max recommended) as i noticed the ride was relatively bouncy. the ride seemed smoother but performance #'s didn't change. i noticed the tires felt like they were too soft and were going to come off the wheel when turning especially going down hill.

now the confusing part...i upgraded to an ITP wheel (10x7) and All Trail XLT tires (22x10x10) assuming i would get the same speed and torque. boy was i wrong...in a good way. speed increased to 16.8-17.1 over same stretch of ground and easily climbed a bank at the edge of my yard that the cart would previously stall on. i mean (easily) climbed it. i took the cart to my daughter's sporting clays tourney today and it rained like hell all day and the cart performed flawlessly in the mud/muck with 4 people on it.

how can this be? do the quality of tires make that much difference? from all of my reading, i have serious doubts that i have a factory motor or controller. is there a way if i can tell if either the motor or controller have been modified? i am not complaining, just confused.

Here's the cart details:
2005 EZGO 36v TXT Series Cart
Trojan 605 batteries
6awg cables
275a Controller (stock) - not sure anymore
F & R Switch (stock)
Motor (stock) - not sure anymore
6" lift (not sure of make)
22x10x10 - ITP wheels & tires

Thanks in advance.

shrp
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:07 AM   #2
azTony
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

I am no expert but just from what I read you got rid of a lot of weight. Going from steel wheels to ITP (I believe they are aluminum) and less rubber (8" rim to 10" and thinner) you have less to spin at each corner.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:13 AM   #3
sportcoupe
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

Sounds like your black steel 8" wheels had ATV tires on them (you said 5 psi max on tire) and the All Trails are a golf cart tire (probably 20 psi max).

Even though it says 5 psi max on the ATV tire when used on a golf cart requires more pressure due to weight. I would have run them at least 10 psi, then you would have noticed better performance.

Another difference is tire height. Although both at 22" I believe if you measure they will not be 22". Tire height and mph go together. Also higher pressure gives greater tire height in an ATV tire.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

I didn't know that sportcoupe, thanks for the post!

Now I need to look at my tires
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Old 03-24-2013, 09:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

I'm pretty sure your new tires are Carlisle All Trail XLT 20x10-10 and I'm guessing you old tire were Carlisle Knobby 22x11-8.

What many people don't realize is the only part of the tire size stamped on the sidewall that is anyplace close to being true, is the rim diameter. At best, the height and width are approximate.

Specs on the old tire: (22 X 11 - 10)
Height = 22.28"
Width = 10.46"
Weight = 13.9 Lbs.
Max Inflation = 5 PSI
Max Load = 365 Lbs.

Specs on the new tire: (22 X 10 - 10)
Height = 20.13"
Width = 10.16"
Weight = 15.1 Lbs.
Max Inflation = 22 PSI
Max Load = 695 Lbs.

There is a 2.15" difference in height the two. The new tires being shorter.
That, in and of itself, gives you about 10% more torque.

However, it also gives you about 10% less speed, but you are getting an increase in speed, so there are some other things going on also.

1. The rolling resistance of low pressure (5 PSI) tires is huge compared to ones that run at 22 PSI.
2. 6 Ga cables. (Plus anything else with excessive resistance in the High current loop)
3. Lower than standard AH battery pack (210AH vs 225AH standard)
4. High Speed motor. (Too fast on 20" tires for a standard speed motor)


Each of the new tires weigh about a pound more than the old tires, but the new aluminum wheels weigh less than the old steel ones, so I'll have to guess it is pretty close to a draw. Anyway, once the weight is turning, it takes about the same energy to keep it turning, so a few pounds one way or the other probably won't change the top speed by much.

The width of the old tire was about 1/3" wider and the tread pattern was more aggressive, so that also added some to the rolling resistance.

What I think has happened is that the old tires required several more amps to turn than the new tires and there is enough resistance in the high current loop to cause a significant voltage drop when a lot of amps are passing through it.
I also suspect you have a high speed motor, whose max RPM is more effected by the applied voltage than the regular speed type.
In addition, the voltage of a lower capacity battery pack drops more than a standard capacity battery pack when the same number of amps are being drawn from it.

Net result is the the motor maxes out about 800RPM faster (About 2.5MPH) because the applied voltage isn't dropping as much due to fewer amps being needed.

------------

Check the label on the motor. If it a part # 73124G03 or BD4-4001, it is a high speed series motor. (Picture of label would be nice.)

A picture of the controller would help identify it, or there might be a label with a part number.

--------------

With a good set of 4 Ga Cables (all 13 or 14 of them), a 400A Controller, a HD Solenoid and a HD F/R switch, I suspect your cart will do about 19-20 MPH.

If you up the pack voltage and get high AH batteries, it'll go faster and have more torque and run longer between charges.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

thanks for the great replies thus far.

aztony, i was kinda leaning that way but the overall tire/wheel weight didn't seem to be substantially different when swapping them out. we're agreed the RPMs definitely had to changed with the 10" wheel vs the 8" wheel. you're right about the ITPs being aluminum.

sport, you're right about the original tires being ATV tires. they were actually inflated to about 18-20psi which was causing significant bounce going down the road. i believe that i was loosing a good bit of energy moving upwards (bouncing) rather than forward so i deflated them to 5lb recommendation to see that that helped. (and it did ever so slightly)

johnnieb, great info once again. i actually put a tape measure on each tire and the new tire ends up being almost a full 1" taller than the original (21.5" tall vs 22.5" tall the way they are inflated). this makes sense for the speed increase but i feel like the torque has improved modestly also. is there a way to measure the torque?

here is a pic of the motor. based on this info, i'd say it is stock. that doesn't mean that the folks that sold the cart to the original owner didn't modify it before the sale.



i tried to take the environment cover off of the controller and it appears i have to remove the solenoid/f&r switch (where the lever comes in from the external switch) before i can remove the controller cover. is there an easier way to do that or is that my only option?

thanks again all.

shrp
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

I found some listings for that motor part number calling a standard motor and others calling it a speed motor, so I don't know what it is.
But it is what it is and it seems to move the cart along nicely.

I must have guessed wrong on the make and model of both the old and the new tires, so now the taller tires explain the increased speed, but not the increased torque.

I don't have series cart to look at, but was under the impression the controller cover came off without mess with the F/R switch and cover.
Can you post a pictures showing that area.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

This is something I've been noodling since I bought my Alltrax ExRay.

If I measure from ground to centerline of the wheel/tire, I get one radius. If I measure from the centerline to the top, I get a different radius. If I measure from side to side, I get a third dimension. I considered using a cloth tape, and measuring the circumference, but even that may not be accurate, as the middle of the tire may bulge more on the sides and top than it does on the bottom.

Ultimately, the best way to measure the "tire diameter" is to make a chalk mark on the side of the tire and the pavement. Drive several revolutions (the more the better) then measure the distance. Distance / revolutions = circumference.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

yurtle, you're getting different radius measurements from top to center, bottom to center (especially), and from left to right because the tire is under pressure from the weight of the cart. if you take the measurement with the wheel off the cart it should come out right or you have something warped or deformed.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: riddle me this Batman

I have Sahara Classic 22x11x12 tires and it says 32 PSI for setting the bead only and 5 PSI normal duty. That seems awfully low. How do I find out what I can run without ruining the tires?
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