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Old 05-19-2014, 08:39 AM   #1
coosa
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Default Winch Question

I did a search, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk on here about winches. I installed one on my 2008 PDS hunting/farm cart a couple of weeks ago. Its a cheap 3000 lb winch made for an atv, but this is for emergency use and I don't expect to use it often.

After a lot of consideration, I decided not to add a 12 volt battery, and just hooked into 2 of the batteries in the pack. The dealer I bought it from had wired the other 12 volt accessories this way, so I just picked 2 different batteries. If I ever use it much, I'll boost those 2 with a 12 volt charger before charging the pack.

The directions said to tap one of the wires into the key switch, but the key switch on the cart is 36 volts and the winch is 12 volts. I decided to put in an independent toggle switch to energize the winch.

My question is kinda stupid, but I got to wondering about the tow/run switch - should I put it in tow mode if I use the winch to drag the cart out of a mudhole? The winch will work without the switch being in the run mode, but would winching it a short distance in run mode make any difference?

Thanks for any help!
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:42 AM   #2
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Winch Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by coosa View Post
I did a search, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk on here about winches. I installed one on my 2008 PDS hunting/farm cart a couple of weeks ago. Its a cheap 3000 lb winch made for an atv, but this is for emergency use and I don't expect to use it often.

After a lot of consideration, I decided not to add a 12 volt battery, and just hooked into 2 of the batteries in the pack. The dealer I bought it from had wired the other 12 volt accessories this way, so I just picked 2 different batteries. If I ever use it much, I'll boost those 2 with a 12 volt charger before charging the pack.

The directions said to tap one of the wires into the key switch, but the key switch on the cart is 36 volts and the winch is 12 volts. I decided to put in an independent toggle switch to energize the winch.

My question is kinda stupid, but I got to wondering about the tow/run switch - should I put it in tow mode if I use the winch to drag the cart out of a mudhole? The winch will work without the switch being in the run mode, but would winching it a short distance in run mode make any difference?

Thanks for any help!
I've got a 12V impact wrench I connect to a couple batteries when I work on lug nuts and axle bolts. Afterwards, I give those two batteries a half an hour or so on a 6A 12V charger before I give the complete pack a charge with my regular charger. (I keep all the batteries in my pack within 0.1V of each other)

Yes, the Run/Tow should be in Tow when you are winching it out, unless you are winching and driving at the same time.

A few feet moving slowly probably wouldn't burn out the controller and/or the motor, but when a PDS cart is pushed or pulled in the Run mode, the controller uses maximum regen braking to stop it from moving, so you might burn out the winch.
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Old 05-19-2014, 02:15 PM   #3
coosa
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Default Re: Winch Question

Thanks for the reply, JohnnieB, I knew you would have the answer. I need to make an instruction guide and keep it in the cart for family and friends that I know are gonna use it. But they never listened to me when using the old resistor cart, so they probably won't listen on this one either.

I don't understand something on the tow/run switch - how does the controller "know" that the cart is being towed instead of coasting down a hill? It seems like coasting with your foot off the pedal would cause the cart to act the same as being towed.

Another stupid question, no doubt. The controller is obviously smarter than I am
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:55 PM   #4
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Winch Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by coosa View Post
Thanks for the reply, JohnnieB, I knew you would have the answer. I need to make an instruction guide and keep it in the cart for family and friends that I know are gonna use it. But they never listened to me when using the old resistor cart, so they probably won't listen on this one either.

I don't understand something on the tow/run switch - how does the controller "know" that the cart is being towed instead of coasting down a hill? It seems like coasting with your foot off the pedal would cause the cart to act the same as being towed.

Another stupid question, no doubt. The controller is obviously smarter than I am
If the pedal is up (NC contacts of pedal microswitch open) before the motor starts spinning (speed sensor sends pulses to controller when the motor's armature turns), the controller goes into the "Walkaway Safety" mode and starts starts sounding the beeper as well as applying maximum regen braking, trying to limit the cart speed to 2.5 MPH on stock height (18") tires.

A PDS cart can be pushed/pulled slowly for a few yards in RUN without killing it, but towing it home behind another cart (or car or pickup) is very likely to take out the controller and/or the motor.


If the motor does not start spinning until after the pedal is press, the controller is happy.

If the controller is in the Steep Hill or Mild Hill PDS modes and the cart is moving faster than 8.5 MPH when you lift your foot off the pedal, regen braking will occur and slow the cart to 8.5 MPH. The cart will coast in All Terrain and Freedom PDS modes, but only if the speed does not exceed the max speed for the PDS mode it is in. IE: Top speed in Freedom mode is about 18 MPH and if you try to exceed 18 MPH going downhill, the controller first starts backing off on the amps going to the motor and if the cart reaches about 20 or so, the controller turns on the regen braking trying to bring the motor RPM below about 4400 RPM.

If the F/R switch is shifted or the keyswitch is turned off (or any momentary loss of a control signal) while the cart is moving, the controller does a "Emergency Stop". Max regen braking accompanied by beeping.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:18 PM   #5
coosa
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Default Re: Winch Question

Thanks for the detailed answer; I think I understand it now. But my 500 amp controller was set by the dealer before he delivered it and I'm not sure which mode its in. He told me it was set for max torque and would be very slow, but it isn't. I've let it coast down some steep hills and I'm sure it got over 20 mph; didn't notice any braking, but I'm not sure I would if it did.

My backup beeper is disconnected, so I can't tell anything from it. Don't need a beeper on a buggy that will be a hunting buggy part of the year. I'm thankful for you guys warning me about not pulling the cart unless its in tow mode. I got no manual with the new cart, and had no experience with this feature. Never had a problem towing the old resistor cart, and it had to be towed in several times.
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:15 AM   #6
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Default Re: Winch Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by coosa View Post
Thanks for the detailed answer; I think I understand it now. But my 500 amp controller was set by the dealer before he delivered it and I'm not sure which mode its in. He told me it was set for max torque and would be very slow, but it isn't. I've let it coast down some steep hills and I'm sure it got over 20 mph; didn't notice any braking, but I'm not sure I would if it did.

My backup beeper is disconnected, so I can't tell anything from it. Don't need a beeper on a buggy that will be a hunting buggy part of the year. I'm thankful for you guys warning me about not pulling the cart unless its in tow mode. I got no manual with the new cart, and had no experience with this feature. Never had a problem towing the old resistor cart, and it had to be towed in several times.
If you have a 500A controller, it is not the stock 300A PDS controller (Curtis 1206MX), so what I said does not apply.

What controller do you have?

If it is a DCX500 like I have in my 2008 PDS cart, it is user programmable.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:10 AM   #7
coosa
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Default Re: Winch Question

JohnnieB, its a DCX500 like yours. I know that it is user programmable, but I don't have a working laptop right now, and I'm very satisfied with the performance the way they set it up. The dealer said it was set for maximum torque, and it climbs the steepest hills I have with ease and still goes plenty fast.

So when you say what you said does not apply, does that mean I can winch it in run mode without any problems? Thanks again!
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Winch Question

The DCX does not have the "Walkaway" feature, so winching it in the Run mode is okay.

It also does not have any speed limiting. (Speed sensor is not used)

It does have regen braking, but it can be turned off and if it is turned on, the amount can be adjusted.

Do not tow it in Run mode if the regen braking is turned on.

What motor and tire height are you running?
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:11 AM   #9
DaveTM
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Default Re: Winch Question

FWIW.....I have a separate 12-V battery for my Warn winch on the front, and my headlights. It also is hooked into the el-chepo $30 winch that (was) bolted on the back. (El-Chepo is now in the junk heap. A few weeks ago it fried like a piece of chicken left in the propane cooker due to....Ummmmm.....let's just say a slippery slope!! )

Now, the winch on the back was "suppose" to be used just to hook up deer kills, and also to assist winching these same deer onto the rear deck of the cart. Yeah....that's it....that was the plan. Of course, until I was actually "out there" and would get twisted sideways in a mud hole and needed to "just move that cart rear end a foot or so to the left" so I would wrap the el-chepo winch around a tree...or rock or whatever and move the 1,000-LB cart.

After two dozen or so of these and other "moves" the el-chepo winch was not designed for, the winch simply gave out. Now, the Warn winch is still running like a champ and will yank my cart darn near anywhere. (BTW, it's a 2500)

So.....morel of the story is.....I'm going to bet you use the el-chepo winch more than you think...and for more than it's designed for.

This year I plan on buying another Warn. Probably the Warn 4000 Advantage Series and installing that on the front, while moving the 2500 to the rear. In addition, I plan on adding another 12-V battery to the existing one so I have additional "juice capacity."

However....before I do the additional 12-V addition, I will have to ask the brain trust here the best way to accomplish this for what I want to do. (You know....I know what I want....but I have no idea how to get there.) Now, I know some of you may think this is overkill. However, what you have to know is that I am disabled. So, I rely very heavily upon my equipment to get me out of jams that I try not to get into. So, when that happens....even though I try not to let that happen, the winch has to work. There is no "give it a push" or "try to rock it" that's going to happen. And for the last 5 years, the Warn has done it's job.

Dave
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Winch Question

Do you have a ramp? pulling it up is a sraighn.
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