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Old 10-11-2016, 02:27 PM   #1
SGF
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Default fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

I got my VC clone in April but it isn't broken in yet. I'll start by saying that although I am keeping an open mind and positive outlook, I'm not sure I would go this route again. When it is working I really like it but I feel like I have traded reliability for performance.

Every so often it won't start. When I check the plug it is carbon fouled like the engine runs rich. I am on my fourth plug and each has been a different brand or heat range. Since most of my use is short stop and go trips to feed animals, fix fences, etc. I decided to give it an occasional run of 8/10 th of a mile or so. That doesn't seem to have mattered. A second issue is the Comet clutch. I ordered that clutch with the engine based on the positive things I read, and how the stock clutch might not be enough for the clone motor. On three occasions the main pulley bolt has loosened. One time it actually fell out. After that I used blue Locktite but that hasn't solved the problem.

The latest challenge was Sunday. We got hit by hurricane Matthew. I use the cart to work around our hobby farm and planned to use it to clean up and do after storm repairs. When I stepped on the throttle it went a few feet forward and stalled. After lots of tries I gave up and used my wife's EZ-GO Workhorse. Yesterday work was closed as all the usual post hurricane mess was in play. Once again I went out to the cart and suffered the same results. It would surge forward then die. Just to see what would happen I turned the choke on and it ran for a minute or so before it started doing the same thing again. I should note that I have never made any adjustments to the carb since the cart was new, and as I mentioned, it isn't even broke in.

Are you guys having better luck than I am or just taking similar issues in stride? For the cost and work involved it sure seems like I am having a lot of problems that I shouldn't have. I should also say that I haven't contacted Vegas carts yet. I am still trying to be positive on the swap but the lack of reliability thing will do me in pretty quick.
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:00 PM   #2
AaronW
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGF View Post
I got my VC clone in April but it isn't broken in yet. I'll start by saying that although I am keeping an open mind and positive outlook, I'm not sure I would go this route again. When it is working I really like it but I feel like I have traded reliability for performance.

Every so often it won't start. When I check the plug it is carbon fouled like the engine runs rich. I am on my fourth plug and each has been a different brand or heat range. Since most of my use is short stop and go trips to feed animals, fix fences, etc. I decided to give it an occasional run of 8/10 th of a mile or so. That doesn't seem to have mattered. A second issue is the Comet clutch. I ordered that clutch with the engine based on the positive things I read, and how the stock clutch might not be enough for the clone motor. On three occasions the main pulley bolt has loosened. One time it actually fell out. After that I used blue Locktite but that hasn't solved the problem.

The latest challenge was Sunday. We got hit by hurricane Matthew. I use the cart to work around our hobby farm and planned to use it to clean up and do after storm repairs. When I stepped on the throttle it went a few feet forward and stalled. After lots of tries I gave up and used my wife's EZ-GO Workhorse. Yesterday work was closed as all the usual post hurricane mess was in play. Once again I went out to the cart and suffered the same results. It would surge forward then die. Just to see what would happen I turned the choke on and it ran for a minute or so before it started doing the same thing again. I should note that I have never made any adjustments to the carb since the cart was new, and as I mentioned, it isn't even broke in.

Are you guys having better luck than I am or just taking similar issues in stride? For the cost and work involved it sure seems like I am having a lot of problems that I shouldn't have. I should also say that I haven't contacted Vegas carts yet. I am still trying to be positive on the swap but the lack of reliability thing will do me in pretty quick.
Non of the carburetors are tuned before a customer receives their engine. There is an air/fuel mixture screw that should help out a bunch. If you look on your carburetor you will see a black plastic square cap. If you pop it off, you will see a brass color flat head screw. Think righty tighty lefty loosey. It seems to be running rich. Try turning that screw to the right (1) quarter of a full turn at a time. That should help..

If not give us a call.

-Aaron

7025307753
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:56 PM   #3
Shepard
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

Have you tried Autolite's new clone plug AR3910? It works great for me. Do you use your machine with the pedal start and stop like a golf cart? If you do your going to see a fouled plug once in awhile. The engine never comes up to operating temp to cook the plug clean. I set mine up with a straight up key system. Start it - drive it - shut it off when finished. I've never had a fouled plug.
As for your clutch bolt loosening up -- Red or Blue Locktite I would not recommend. The reason being that you use heat to free up the bond. Your engine gets very hot and it weaken the locktite's ability to hold.
I bought a new grade 8 bolt and drilled a wire hole through the head of the bolt. I lubed the threads and torqued to 40 lbs and wired the bolt in place. It hasn't moved yet. You also could get a mechanical lock -- its a washer that is thin enough to bend up over a flat on the bolt head to lock it in place.

PS Don't get discouraged - the VC 460 is built for performance and will last a long time if you perform proper maintenance.
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:18 AM   #4
SGF
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepard View Post
Have you tried Autolite's new clone plug AR3910? It works great for me. Do you use your machine with the pedal start and stop like a golf cart? If you do your going to see a fouled plug once in awhile. The engine never comes up to operating temp to cook the plug clean. I set mine up with a straight up key system. Start it - drive it - shut it off when finished. I've never had a fouled plug.
As for your clutch bolt loosening up -- Red or Blue Locktite I would not recommend. The reason being that you use heat to free up the bond. Your engine gets very hot and it weaken the locktite's ability to hold.
I bought a new grade 8 bolt and drilled a wire hole through the head of the bolt. I lubed the threads and torqued to 40 lbs and wired the bolt in place. It hasn't moved yet. You also could get a mechanical lock -- its a washer that is thin enough to bend up over a flat on the bolt head to lock it in place.

PS Don't get discouraged - the VC 460 is built for performance and will last a long time if you perform proper maintenance.
I haven't tried that particular plug but I will get one and give it a shot.

I use it with the pedal start but I haven't dialed that in yet. I mentioned in a previous thread that I have to press the pedal almost to the floor to engage it and I really have to use precise pedal control for smooth acceleration until I am up to speed. I have thought more and more about changing over to a key start but I haven't really weighed the pro and cons of doing so enough yet to decide. It seems there are pros and cons to both. I have limited time to mess with the cart and reliability is the most important thing to me so whatever works best is good.

Your point about the engine not getting hot enough is dead on. It is pretty much driven 50 ft. jump off do something jump back in it drive 70 ft. and repeat. As I mentioned I make a point to try and drive it around sometimes so it isn't just short runs but the short trips are definitely predominant by a wide margin.

I'll have to take a look at the clutch bolt area when I get home. I am familiar with the safety wire and locking washer methods but I'm not sure where either would fasten to stop bolt movement. I'll have to look it over.
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Old 10-12-2016, 08:22 AM   #5
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

Thanks Aaron. I'll give that a try.
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Old 10-12-2016, 07:33 PM   #6
sho305
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

I have two clones that get used for all kinds of stuff, and sometimes very short trips over and over. Never had a problem, they are 420 clones but essentially very similar. You need to idle the engine very slow with pedal start and keep adjusting the mixture, then idle it slower, until it barely runs and sometimes the comp release will start going off. Get the mixture right on a warmed engine this way with the screw in far as you can and it idles smoothly as possible, then usually you turn it out 1/4 turn richer and it should still idle nice, that should be a good starting point. If it starts hard cold (during the summer) turn it out a little more, if it fouls a plug try turning it in a little. I don't use any choke in the summer with a stock clone carb.

The airbox and muffler you use can also affect it. If they flow a lot it will make the clone lean and you have to jet it up, if you use stock parts it flows less and they don't like that since the clone/vc460 makes much more power than stock cart engines. That could cause it to be rich, overheat, and I don't know what else though you would have to run it over half throttle likely to see those issues. Anyway, the main could also be rich if you have less flow in your airbox/exhaust and cause the plug to be black but you would have to run it out some....you can't read a plug on a cold engine.

The clone and the stock cart engine both liked to start the best feathering the throttle from idle to about 1/4 throttle. If you have to floor it or something its out of adjustment and/or the linkage is out, something is not right. I always set them so I can hit the pedal a little and it will start and idle slow, it wont go until I push more on pedal. You may have to change some things to get that (like adjust the pedal switch or move the pedal or adjust the cable) to make sure you still get full throttle when you floor it.
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Old 10-13-2016, 07:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

The issue with the dying after a couple of feet just started. It never did that before. Maybe something came out of adjustment. As I mentioned earlier, the engine isn't even broken in so dirty carb and the like are pretty unlikely. The way you describe your peddle travel sounds just like the way I would have described mine with the stock engine. I know mine needs adjustment but I haven't dialed that in yet. I can go through the throttle range with it but the travel is short and at the bottom (floorboard) end of the pedal. Starting takes good control because the point where it starts is very short and easy to overshoot. I do not have to "floor it". It just touchy to hit the spot where the starter turns over without that spot being overshot.

The air box is the stock unit that came with the engine. It has the original air filter in it. The muffle is the Walker muffler VC sells for this application. I am making the logical assumption that these things should work together correctly since VC did the homework and recommended the muffler.

My plan is to begin by making the air fuel mixture adjustment that Aaron recommends. That seems a good starting point.

Regarding plug reading, I once took the cart to an ATV park. It was the longest run times the new engine has ever had and surely at operating temperature. When I arrived the cart wouldn't start. I figured out the plug was fouled. This was the first time that happened. The park had a shop and I bought this insanely expensive plug. It was one of those pointy electrode last forever plugs. After running around all day the cart still ran fine, which is one reason I wondered if it was the short trips with a cold engine that was my plug issue. Nothing to do with my problem but my son thought it was really funny how the people at the park reacted to the cart. There were $30,000 utv's there and the guys in the shop and others all wanted to see the clone engine swap in the TXT. If I can get this stalling thing sorted out I have to figure the throttle out. A guy in a cart shop set it up. He said he did it as he did because putting it closer to normal, with the cart firing with the peddle higher might have caused me to press down to hard and break the cable. That sounds like I need a longer cable but devinately I need to take a good look at that and either fix it or put in a key start.
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Old 10-13-2016, 10:56 AM   #8
ncsu4life
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

the going a few feet and the engine quitting and only working while choked sounds like it could be a hose not clamped tightly on your fuel system. My cart worked perfectly for some time and then all of a sudden I lost power and then the engine wouldn't crank. It ended up being a loose fitting on the pulse line where the fuel line had become stiff over time and then the line must have shifted creating a small leak in the pulse line vacuum.
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

Can you post a picture of how you have the throttle cable hooked onto the engine? Did you use the Vegas Carts throttle cable bracket?
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:16 AM   #10
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Default Re: fouled plug and loose cluch bolt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepard View Post
Can you post a picture of how you have the throttle cable hooked onto the engine? Did you use the Vegas Carts throttle cable bracket?
A golf cart shop set the throttle up so I can't say for sure if they used that bracket. I will post pictures.
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