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Old 07-26-2021, 01:05 PM   #1
WranglerSK
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Join Date: Jul 2021
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Default HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

I can't thank everyone enough for their fabulous posts and threads on these harley carts. I can't say I'm a technical guru, but I am a rancher and do wrench on quite a bit of equipment.

My friend's cart, the "zipmobile" is a project over the last number of years that ends up in my shop over winter. I typically tune up little things and keep it moving, but this last time had me scratching my head.

I sourced it down to faulty coil, points/condenser. This unit used to run good, but I always did notice that it had more getup in reverse than forward.

I've changed the points, condenser, new plug, new coil, new wire. I've timed it just as the posts show, even went into building a timing stop, but here's my dilemma:

When i set gap at .022, then roll down to bottom, then roll both CW and CCW from BDC, testing for point break both directions using a multimeter - I see that my timing mark on the flywheel both are not center for either. they are just starting to show (the one just starting along the bottom and the other just starting from the top). I've adjusted the plate to make them equal, resetting gap each time. the cart still lacks the getup going forward. it starts and runs but not like it should.

...so what would cause the timing marks to not be centered in the view window?
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:28 AM   #2
Lochlin
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

I convert all of my points carts to electronic so I am not an expert but what you are seeing I have seen too. I don't know if these old engines misalign over the years or what but I have failed every time I tried to time via the book method. The only thing that ever worked for me when I was running points was to drive around with the points plate off, and pull over every now and then to make tiny points adjustments until I got it right. Sometimes the alignment marks simply didn't match up to a good running cart. I can't say why, though.
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Old 09-01-2021, 02:43 PM   #3
WranglerSK
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lochlin View Post
I convert all of my points carts to electronic so I am not an expert but what you are seeing I have seen too. I don't know if these old engines misalign over the years or what but I have failed every time I tried to time via the book method. The only thing that ever worked for me when I was running points was to drive around with the points plate off, and pull over every now and then to make tiny points adjustments until I got it right. Sometimes the alignment marks simply didn't match up to a good running cart. I can't say why, though.
Thanks Lochlin,
I'm skeptical that the timing would be so precise, but with many people commenting on the same type of problem - I'd like to take another poke at it.

I'm looking at an Ignition Module and wondering if someone might tell me whether this would actually work or not. We have a "Princess Auto" in Canada, much like Harbor Freight. They sell an Ignition module

https://www.princessauto.com/en/gas-...t/PA0004780300

From what you can see - could this module be converted by removing the condenser and using the points?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Module Diagram.jpg (117.0 KB, 0 views)
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:17 PM   #4
Lochlin
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

WHOA! You may well have found a holy grail with regard to a points conversion. Not only should that work, it might well be the easiest and most cost effective way to do a points conversion.

I wrote an electronic ignition conversion "sticky" that is at the top of the Columbia forum. Essentially, I have instructions on how to build one of these from scratch. It appears as if this Princess Auto kit does all of that for you and you just need to wire it in. The wiring itself is consistent with what I do with my homemade kits.

Read that sticky when you get a moment as there is some info there with regard to how much resistance should be in an ignition circuit to lessen the chances fail due to too much current / heat.
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Old 09-02-2021, 12:26 PM   #5
WranglerSK
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

I've tried to understand your sticky for some time, but really get confused on the details - it's far too technical for my small brain.

And to connect and operate this ignition module while still using the points, I wasn't quite sure if this would actually work or not.
Would it essentially become a "middle man" between the points and the coil? Remove the condenser, connect a lead from the points (in which you could then not worry about gap but just ensure that your points break at where the dot on the flywheel is) and take that lead from the points to the Negative side of this module - and send the positive side to the coil?

... am I thinking of this correctly? or am I out to lunch still...
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Old 12-02-2021, 06:41 PM   #6
EducatorDave
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

Quote:
Originally Posted by WranglerSK View Post
I've tried to understand your sticky for some time, but really get confused on the details - it's far too technical for my small brain.

And to connect and operate this ignition module while still using the points, I wasn't quite sure if this would actually work or not.
Would it essentially become a "middle man" between the points and the coil? Remove the condenser, connect a lead from the points (in which you could then not worry about gap but just ensure that your points break at where the dot on the flywheel is) and take that lead from the points to the Negative side of this module - and send the positive side to the coil?

... am I thinking of this correctly? or am I out to lunch still...
I am curious how you made out with this? I am now just starting a rebuild project on a 1974 HD Model D. Would appreciate an update if possible.
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Old 12-02-2021, 07:54 PM   #7
WranglerSK
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

I haven't tried to use that little unit, still uncertain if how I explained it would be the proper procedure.


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Old 12-08-2021, 10:33 AM   #8
73eldo
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Default Re: HD Setting Points - Timing marks both just before view

That PrincessAuto module isn't anything new or special, they have been around since the 1990's. I don't think they will work on our carts because we are using what is called a battery ignition. Those modules are designed for magneto ignitions which are commonly used on machines that don't have a battery or electrical systems per say at all.

IF you look at the diagram that was posted above you can see its a magneto system. If you think about it if you literally remove the points on our engines how will it know when to fire the spark? With the magneto that only happens once per rev so it knows when it gets voltage from the mag its supposed to spark. We don't have a mag so no reference when to spark.
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