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Old 05-26-2021, 03:50 PM   #11
CCNorth
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

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Originally Posted by Cartmaster View Post
You could try refitting the blue/red to see if that sorts out the fan, then do the same with the white wire to see what happens with the crank circuit and go from there. I honestly cannot see that the whit wire is causing an issue as it just goes to a fuse and then out to accessory connections, but who knows what a previous owner has done in the past.

At the end of the day, if you solve the fan issue, you can probably overide part of the crank circuit if this is for your personal use and just wire straight from the ignition switch to the starter.
Bingo, Colin! That BL/R needs a new connection out of that silly bundle. Also, the connector for the current bundle is terrible. See the white wire peeking out below the connector? It does not appear to be inside the connector properly. If it were and the other end is connected to the fuse, as it should be, it should blow the fuse as soon as the bundle is connected the the Bat - terminal. Am I correct?? Maybe it's the phantom ground.

It dawned on me that the 50a “fuse” you were looking for MAY be right in front of your eyes, on the Battery +. See attached photo. Colin, am I correct??
If I am correct, WHY is it there?? What was connected to it??
I would remove this fuse since it serves no purpose at this point and may interfere with proper contact of the other connectors.
The wiring diagram shows an optional, I think, Red wire from Bat + to the fusible link fuse then to an optional Alternator (#10) that Colin was describing. If I am correct that the Red wire is in addition to all the other wires on the Bat +, why did the previous owner cut the Red wire from the bundle and where is it now connected??

I looked at the manual again and it says “after you replace the battery reconnect the THREE wires/cables to the battery positive and one wire/cable to the battery negative.” So, at least it’s telling us that in the factory setup there are only three wires on the positive. Excluding the bundle, you have only TWO connections on the positive, that I can see, and one HAS to have a BL/R wire to the fan relay. Why is it missing? Of the two connectors on the positive, one is suspicious to me - Pinkish color with a yellow connector. Where does this go?? This color is not shown on the wire diagram. The other connection appears Orange on my screen. Is it really Red?
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Old 05-26-2021, 04:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

CCNorth:
The red wire cut by previous owner is the large red wire directly under my thumb. The other red wire you reference is the starter wire from battery pos.
I need to get a better picture. I'll be home on Friday.
All those Orange wires are actually red.
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Old 05-26-2021, 06:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

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CCNorth:
The red wire cut by previous owner is the large red wire directly under my thumb. The other red wire you reference is the starter wire from battery pos.
I need to get a better picture. I'll be home on Friday.
All those Orange wires are actually red.
I guess I did not ask my question very well. Sorry. The arrow in my pic points to what looks like the other end of the bundle you are holding under your thumb. It's like you could put the two pieces together where the wire loom was cut.

About what I labeled as a possible "fuse" I see that I was wrong! When I enlarged the photo I think I now see that it is a connector for white wires and it's just turned upside down. Sorry.

I'll be quiet now and leave it to you and Colin.
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Old 05-27-2021, 12:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

No Worries CCNorth.

I am speculating from photo's and the diagram as i have never worked on a fuel injected gas Mule before. Im just thinking logically from what i can see.

I wish the diagram was higher definition as the colour designations blur when i expand the images.

I wont have much time to look at it today as i have some catching up to do before going on annual leave next week.

I will be back when i can though.

[EDIT]

I am Back for a few minutes.
Right, I managed to take a good hard look at the diagram. You may have to check the diagram yourself though as i am rushing through this.

What i thought was a cable/wire bundle for an extra alternator, actually appears to be the original bundle that fed the starter motor on the large red cable, the white wire feeds the accessory fuse No2 on fusebox No2 and the blue/red feeds the fan relay respectively.
Can you confirm that the cable you currently have for the starter feed is on a factory terminal or does it look like it has been "upgraded". I think that it has been cut from the bundle and connected to the battery post on its own for some reason. I am going to suggest that we cut the white and Blue/red from the bundled wires and terminate them individually. This would put the wiring back to specification. then throw the bundle connector as far as away as you possibly can. Its confusing the real issue here. We need to put everything right. find any stray grounds and eliminate them if there are any. make sure that the fan now works, and then figure out the cranking situation. Find the starter relay and start investigating that. See if you get switched (Crank position of ignition switch) power for the coil of the relay on terminal 85 or 86 and constant power to one side of the switch side of the relay. Probably terminal No 30 fed from fuse 3 in fuse box 3. terminal 87 on the relay feeds the starter motor energizing wire. Now you should find a switched ground on the last terminal of the relay supplied by the neutral switch on the gearbox If this is working you should have a neutral light on the dashboard.

The relay terminal No's are standard auto relay layouts in the UK and may be different, but using the diagram colour codes you can work out which is which. 30 and 87 being the switch then 85 and 86 being the coil.

The negative battery terminal should only have the large ground cable and one smaller ground wire. Kawasaki tend to keep all grounds Black/Yellow making diagnosis easy.

We can crack this one way or another.
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Old 05-28-2021, 08:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

You guys are awesome. Thank you. I got into the electrical briefly but with my son graduating this weekend, this mule isn't on the honey do list.

I did identify that there was a rogue red lead to the positive side (with the yellow connector). I removed that b/c this seemed to be part of a previous light bar installation. I traced a black, white and red through the dash, back up to the light bar toggle switch on the dash. That thing was a mess b/c of a rogue 30amp fuse, a loose red, a connected to the battery red, a rogue black and another connected to some odd accessory relay. All hidden in a electrical tape bundle Christmas present. Such a mess.

Honestly I stopped there because I hear there are "more important" things I need to accomplish.

The mule does not crank. Turn of the key yields the fuel pump prime and a click of the starter relay.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartmaster View Post
No Worries CCNorth.

I am speculating from photo's and the diagram as i have never worked on a fuel injected gas Mule before. Im just thinking logically from what i can see.

I wish the diagram was higher definition as the colour designations blur when i expand the images.

I wont have much time to look at it today as i have some catching up to do before going on annual leave next week.

I will be back when i can though.

[EDIT]

I am Back for a few minutes.
Right, I managed to take a good hard look at the diagram. You may have to check the diagram yourself though as i am rushing through this.

What i thought was a cable/wire bundle for an extra alternator, actually appears to be the original bundle that fed the starter motor on the large red cable, the white wire feeds the accessory fuse No2 on fusebox No2 and the blue/red feeds the fan relay respectively.
Can you confirm that the cable you currently have for the starter feed is on a factory terminal or does it look like it has been "upgraded". I think that it has been cut from the bundle and connected to the battery post on its own for some reason. I am going to suggest that we cut the white and Blue/red from the bundled wires and terminate them individually. This would put the wiring back to specification. then throw the bundle connector as far as away as you possibly can. Its confusing the real issue here. We need to put everything right. find any stray grounds and eliminate them if there are any. make sure that the fan now works, and then figure out the cranking situation. Find the starter relay and start investigating that. See if you get switched (Crank position of ignition switch) power for the coil of the relay on terminal 85 or 86 and constant power to one side of the switch side of the relay. Probably terminal No 30 fed from fuse 3 in fuse box 3. terminal 87 on the relay feeds the starter motor energizing wire. Now you should find a switched ground on the last terminal of the relay supplied by the neutral switch on the gearbox If this is working you should have a neutral light on the dashboard.

The relay terminal No's are standard auto relay layouts in the UK and may be different, but using the diagram colour codes you can work out which is which. 30 and 87 being the switch then 85 and 86 being the coil.

The negative battery terminal should only have the large ground cable and one smaller ground wire. Kawasaki tend to keep all grounds Black/Yellow making diagnosis easy.

We can crack this one way or another.
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:20 AM   #16
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

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Originally Posted by dougs_huntingcart View Post
You guys are awesome. Thank you. I got into the electrical briefly but with my son graduating this weekend, this mule isn't on the honey do list.

I did identify that there was a rogue red lead to the positive side (with the yellow connector). I removed that b/c this seemed to be part of a previous light bar installation. I traced a black, white and red through the dash, back up to the light bar toggle switch on the dash. That thing was a mess b/c of a rogue 30amp fuse, a loose red, a connected to the battery red, a rogue black and another connected to some odd accessory relay. All hidden in a electrical tape bundle Christmas present. Such a mess.

Honestly I stopped there because I hear there are "more important" things I need to accomplish.

The mule does not crank. Turn of the key yields the fuel pump prime and a click of the starter relay.
You think I'm an awesome guy? Thanks! I'll take that.

Well, thank goodness I'm not totally nuts. I knew that lead with the yellow connector was likely to have issues. Sorry to know you found such a mess. Unfortunately, that mess shows what you're up against. But, have no fear, Colin is here. He'll get to the bottom of it.

What were you told when you bought the Mule? Previous problems? Had it been running recently or sitting a while? Did it/does it have a winch?

Should have told you that the water/temp sensors are a frequent problem. My advice is to always go OEM when replacing. I went through two cheap ones that failed quickly and finally found a OEM replacement along with a relay, flushed the radiator and use a coil cleaner to clean the radiator grill. No overheating issues the past two years.

I sent you a private message. Please check you messages. There is something there that will be very helpful.

Congrats to your son! Enjoy the time with your family.
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Old 05-29-2021, 02:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

I was beginning to see what you have found and that's why I suggested we resolve any stray wiring and put things back to how it should be. Then start diagnosing the real problems. Now I know the start relay clicks, I have better chance to guess where the problem is regarding starting. The fan circuit can be tested with a cold engine by bridging the sensor as far as I know.

If CC has sent you a present, I'm guessing we may now all be singing from the same songsheet lol. Oh yeah, she' an awesome guy lol. Sorry CC. I had to do it!

Once you can get back on the job, we will have this thing fired up in no time.

My hopes are that there is nothing wrong with the fan circuit and a simple fix for crank. Possibly a faulty ground for the relay. I think the clue here is that it cranks if you put those bunched wires to ground it cranks, but they should be on batt +ve.
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:46 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

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Originally Posted by CCNorth View Post
You think I'm an awesome guy? Thanks! I'll take that.

Well, thank goodness I'm not totally nuts. I knew that lead with the yellow connector was likely to have issues. Sorry to know you found such a mess. Unfortunately, that mess shows what you're up against. But, have no fear, Colin is here. He'll get to the bottom of it.

What were you told when you bought the Mule? Previous problems? Had it been running recently or sitting a while? Did it/does it have a winch?

Should have told you that the water/temp sensors are a frequent problem. My advice is to always go OEM when replacing. I went through two cheap ones that failed quickly and finally found a OEM replacement along with a relay, flushed the radiator and use a coil cleaner to clean the radiator grill. No overheating issues the past two years.

I sent you a private message. Please check you messages. There is something there that will be very helpful.

Congrats to your son! Enjoy the time with your family.
I got your message.
I bought from an elderly couple that owned it for 6 months and they were liquidating their property assets for a major downsize. They bought it from the 1st owner who needed money.
The mule would start intermittently, run for a while, then not restart. After reading a bunch on that issue, I replaced the starter and the fuel which had been sitting for who knows how long. After I did that, the mule ran awesome. Not a single problem while it was cool outside....then I found out about the fan not working as designed. Then I started troubleshooting...
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Old 05-29-2021, 10:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

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I was beginning to see what you have found and that's why I suggested we resolve any stray wiring and put things back to how it should be. Then start diagnosing the real problems. Now I know the start relay clicks, I have better chance to guess where the problem is regarding starting. The fan circuit can be tested with a cold engine by bridging the sensor as far as I know.

If CC has sent you a present, I'm guessing we may now all be singing from the same songsheet lol. Oh yeah, she' an awesome guy lol. Sorry CC. I had to do it!

Once you can get back on the job, we will have this thing fired up in no time.

My hopes are that there is nothing wrong with the fan circuit and a simple fix for crank. Possibly a faulty ground for the relay. I think the clue here is that it cranks if you put those bunched wires to ground it cranks, but they should be on batt +ve.
Yeah my intent is get everything back to stock. It's really hard to troubleshoot when accessories are installed in not a clean fashion.

For the record - everyone are guys.... I grew up in NJ. So "you guys" is relative to whomever.

I'll get back to this thing this week hopefully.

Later
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Old 05-30-2021, 05:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance

Ok.

Done some digging with the Technical manual for this machine. During these tests, the engine may start, so make sure the machine is in neutral and wheels are off the ground. Assuming your model is 4X4, that's all wheels! or select 2X4 and jack the rear of the machine off the ground.

If you are not getting crank, with ignition off unplug the start relay and confirm the hot circuit by placing a wire bridge at the socket for the relay on the red and red/white wire terminal. the starter should crank immediately. If so, now test the switch to relay circuit by moving the bridge to the red/white and the Black/white wire terminals. Now the starter should crank with the ign switch on and in the crank position. (engine may start) If so the only thing left is the feed for the ground of the relay which is supplied by the neutral switch on the gearbox. In neutral you should have ground on the light green wire to energise the relay coil and a dash light to show the gearbox is in neutral (usually green)

If you are conversant with a volt meter, set to a low DC volt range and check for :

Red wire = constant ground Seen through the start solenoid coil.
Red/white wire = constant 12V fed from the starter relay fuse
Black/white wire = switched 12V from the ign switch crank position
Light green wire = ground from the neutral switch on gearbox

If all these tests prove you have all good feeds to the relay, then the relay is suspect. The Relay is there to isolate load from the start solenoid and Ign switch plus as a safety device to prevent you starting the engine while in gear. You can ignore a previous post with terminal numbers on the relay as it is not a standard auto relay after all.

If your test results are good and if the wiring is fine, but still no crank, then you may need to replace the relay.

If you are not concerned about the engine being able to be started in gear, you can pull the relay and bridge the Black/white and red connections, at least until you source a new relay


If you are not getting ground from the neutral switch, pull the wire off it and connect the wire to a good ground to see if that allows the starter to crank. If so a new neutral switch may be needed.

If you are not concerned about the engine being able to be started in gear, then you can leave that connector to ground or at least until you get a new switch

For the record, I am not condoning overriding safety devices, just advising how you can, to be able to move and test the machine. This is a technique used by technicians around the world for testing purposes and machine recovery when a breakdown occurs.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Colin
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