Allied Lithium drop in batteries

[dubzga]

Originally Posted by hsfowler

Out of curiosity what are you charging them with? Are you running an aftermarket motor with the 400A Alltrax? Where did you get them from? What size do you have? Sorry for the questions lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No problem, happy to help.

Factory motor but I've got the RPMs limited on the alltrax to keep it within the limits of its top speed. On my 23-in tires I think that comes out too about 34 or 35 mph going downhill. Flat ground I can run about 25 or 26.

I got the 60 amp hour because I don't use it to play golf but do use it to get to and from the golf course and take my kids around The neighborhood. That seemed to be the sweet spot for range for me which if I had to guess is probably about 25 miles max with my controller and tires. Also worked out to be their minimum for high amperage applications. I think even though it says 400 amps, the alltrax 400 has a max draw of like like 460 amps.

For the charger, I used the factory power drive 2 charger for the first two or three months but they stopped saying that that was an acceptable battery charger to use with for warranty coverage so I went ahead and bought their charger. The power drive at most would charge it up probably to about 80% capacity. Their charger actually gets the batteries to full voltage but more importantly is designed for lithium batteries. If you're shelling out the bucks for lithium batteries get the right charger for it. I can run mine for about 20 mi and seems to be back to a full charge in under 3 hours.

[hsfowler]

Interesting. I appreciate the information. I already have a Lester summit 2 mounted on board so I need to verify if that will work with those batteries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dinny]

Allied have a terrible customer service record, will not refund and argue there are no issues.

This product is dangerous if used in an RXV as they cause the carts to lock up or freewheel when the brake is pressed. Zero support and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I am reporting them to the FTC for ignoring safety issues.

[parrothead82]

I am a newby to this forum so please be considerate.

I purchased 4 of Allied's 80 AH batteries for my 2008 Club Car Precedent in April this year. I bypassed the OBC as instructed and also purchased the charger as recommended.

I fully charged the batteries and did the initial break in. Here is where the problems start. I understand the State of Charge (SOC) 15 min rule and having to wait for the batteries to stabilize prior to getting an accurate reading.

I found after accomplishing all of the above, that the SOC would read 72% after only 15 min or so of driving and rest. I was thankful that I bought 80 AH batteries and thought that the problem would correct itself much like the periodic conditioning. I expected the SOC to increase. However, it stayed pretty much steady state.

After a few months I saw an advertisement that stated you get a free balancer with the purchase of batteries. I contacted Vincent from Ace golf cart covers. I explained the lack of capacity and requested that they provide me a balancer. He agreed after some lengthy persuasion. I followed all the instructions for install and continued use.

Shortly the SOC started to degrade more. My routine is to get my cart out of the shed, go to the club house and check in, and then proceed to the practice range. This is only about a half mile. I hit balls while the cart rests and check SOC. The SOC deteriorated to only 52% over several weeks after installation of the balancer. I contacted Vincent again through messaging
(can't get them on the phone anymore). We messaged a few times and I sent him pics of the install and battery voltages and SOC for a few days. He confirmed that the install was correct and said it was out of balance. Directed me to Allied message help desk for further assistance.

I did as directed and was contacted by Kyle Copeland of DW Parts. I have no idea how they are related to Allied. Below is the information I provided to Kyle on 27 Aug:
Kyle,

I took voltages about 2 weeks ago. After a full charge and driving about 1/4 mile.

SOC 52%

Batt #1 13.1
Batt #2 13.1
Batt #3 14.08
Batt #4 13.1

Total voltage 53.4

I then played 18 holes and took readings again

SOC 27%

Batt #1 12.1
Batt #2 12.9
Batt #3 13.1
Batt #4 13.0

Total voltage 51.8

Monday I played 18 holes and the SOC was a 18% afterwards. I removed the balancer, thinking that it may be the reason for the degraded performance. Yesterday I played golf again. After driving about 1/4 mile and allowing rest the SOC was at 42%. After 18 holes the SOC was at 7%. I placed the batteries on charge. I went out this morning and checked the voltages again after full charge.

Batt #1 13.0
Batt #2 13.1
Batt #3 14.1
Batt #4 13.1

Total voltage 53.5

I then drove the cart about 2 miles and checked the batteries again.

SOC 37%

Batt #1 12.8
Batt #2 13.0
Batt #3 13.2
Batt #4 13.0

Total voltage 52.3


Kyle's response was as follows:


Kyle Copeland (DW Parts)
Aug 28, 2020, 3:54 PM CDT

Yes we recommend unplugging the charger from the cart so the voltages can rest. This will all the balancer to do its job and equalize the voltages.

The battery reading 14.1 isn't an issue. This is the battery that isn't allowing the rest to fully charge. Putting the batteries in parallel for 24 hours allows the voltages to become equal.

We can get your batteries fixed if you follow these steps.
Isolate the batteries by removing them from the cart. Put them in parallel using 16 or 18 gauge wire in 4 foot lengths as seen in the parallel diagram below. We recommend balancing batteries in parallel for at least 24 hours.

You can check how balanced they are by hooking up the voltmeter after that amount of time.
Making sure they are the same voltage, connect them back in the cart, and charge them completely with your charger. Make sure your battery balancer is connected like the diagram below. Start with the absolute main negative terminal (0 volt pole) and work your way around to the last absolute positive terminal (48 volt pole). This will properly keep your batteries in balance while the cart is at rest.
Please make sure that you charge the cart after every use.

Please reply with a picture to confirm your battery and balancer is correctly connected.

Hope this helps.
Thank you
Kyle


I did all the steps including the parallel configuration for 24 hours, re-installation and conditioning of the batteries again. Results emailed to Kyle were as follows:

Yesterday I let the cart rest from 9 AM until about 12 PM. I took it out for a drive for about 1 mile. Allowed batteries to rest for 1 hr and the state of charge was 74%. Battery voltage at this time was

Batt #1 13.1
Batt #2 13.2
Batt #3 14.1
Batt #4 13.3

I put the cart on charge and allowed it to charge over night.

This morning I removed the charge cable and allowed to rest for about 4 hrs and took voltages


Batt #1 13.1
Batt #2 13.2
Batt #3 13.5
Batt #4 13.3

SOC was at 100% when charger was removed and was at 82% after 4 hr rest. Placed cart back on charger and will continue conditioning.

His response was those voltages seem to be pretty good. Allowing the cart to rest and letting the balancer equalize, is helping the batteries balance much more evenly.
Your conditioning cycles are helping the batteries increase efficiency.

Feel free to use the cart regularly with consistent charging

My response:

Kyle,

Here is the issue. The batteries SOC never stays above 72% for more than 5 min driving time. I can take it from a full charge drive it a couple minutes and let it rest 20 minutes and the SOC will read 72%. How long must I condition the batteries to get the expected/advertised capacity of 80 ah batteries. The next issue is that I live 40 miles from where I play golf so it is not prudent to unplug the cart after a full charge and let it rest for hours to allow it to balance. I had to borrow a trailer to bring the cart home and condition the batteries. I do not want to take this cart back to the course without full available capacity. I also firmly believe based on the short drives the cart will not make 27 holes let alone 4 rounds without charging. I paid a lot of money for these batteries and expect the capacity/performance to match the price. What is the expected SOC after 18 holes with one passenger?

Additionally, Battery #3 continues to charge to 14.1 volts. I remember that you stated this was the cause for the other 3 batteries to not fully charge. Should we replace battery #3 and see if the batteries will charge to full capacity?

This was the last communication. Since then I have continued to condition the batteries with no increase in SOC above 72% after short run. In addition I have noticed that after a full charge and the cart resting for 10 hours the SOC is around 80%.

Thank you for reading this lengthy post. Can any of you knowledgeable folks provide me with thoughts on how to proceed?

Also my recommendation to all the folks considering the conversion is to stay far away!!!

[dubzga]

I dont think the factory SOC meter or the one that comes on those batteries will be accurate. Has it died on you or are you basing your frustration on what the SOC is telling you? Not being confrontational, I just don't think you can base your distance assumptions on the SOC meters

[parrothead82]

No, I have not allowed the meter to get below 17% after rest.

[WalterM6]

Does your SOC meter read 100% after a full charge and not driven? Here is what the SOC should be.

[parrothead82]

Cart fully charged yesterday at 1400, SOC was 100%

Batt #1 13.1
Batt #2 13.2
Batt #3 14.1
Batt #4 13.3

Cart sat at rest unplugged from the charger, in tow mode and key off until 0700 this morning, SOC is 70%

Batt #1 13.1
Batt #2 13.2
Batt #3 13.2
Batt #4 13.2

is this normal?

[Sergio]

It is normal to the extend the SOC meter is reflecting a 1v drop in pack voltage, so while the balancing is working, it may take several more charging cycles to equalize the batteries.

I assume you have no extra wires for accessories directly connected to any batteries, right?

Connecting the batteries in parallel will get them to the same voltage, but not the same SOC.

To get them to the same SOC, in addition to connecting them in parallel, You also have to connect a 12v charger to the set.

That way as each battery gets to full voltage it will drop off and the others will continue to charge until they also get to full charge.

[parrothead82]

I have a 48 to 12v converter installed. It powers lights and was for a stereo that I removed long ago. Can I use a normal 12v charger for car battery to charge the parallel pack?