Jerky Throttle

[fsu1tm]

Trying to program my new I60 to get rid of what I would call a jerky throttle. When riding I try to maintain a consistent slow (12-14 mph), which is as fast as my wife likes to ride. Unfortunately, I find that if I barely let off the pedal, the cart jerks. So much so my wife asks "Are you doing that?"

Does anyone else experience this? I have the cables and software for programming and tried adjusting #50. I've seen some people say they adjusted from 30 to 27 but mine was already set at 15.

Couple of questions. Do people feel like this is the line for Regen and does going up in number increase the Regen or does going down increase the Regen?

I care nothing about Regen (coming from series carts I like coasting). I'd really like to turn it completely off and see if that stops the jerkiness.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[dcardullo]

I have the same issue. I also hate that 0-20 is fairly quick within 5-8 sec but then 20-30 takes FOREVER. I feel there is really no partial throttle its either none then 5mph then wide open

[fstop]

I have a Club Car with a Navitas controller, so this isn't Icon specific, but I'll share my thoughts on the issue. I'll say that "Driveability" is a key element to me - natural and predictable feel when speeding up / slowing down / maintaining speed / making slight adjustments.

First, I think AC motors are much more difficult to control in this type of application (vs say, a pump motor), as you need to have the proper "feel", or driveability as I'd call it. It isn't just varying the RPM. Driving isn't always full on or full off or even a consistent deceleration - it is a constant and usually unpredictable series of adjustments that you would hope would feel smooth.

The controller is the main component in making this feel smooth, although the go pedal sensor plays a part but assuming it has enough travel, has smooth and linear resolution and is otherwise working properly it should be up to the task.

That said, IMO it comes down to the FW programming (and the HW capabilities of the controller). Programming for "Driveability" I'd say is 75% ergonomic in the sense that it needs to "feel" right, and the other 25% is just making sure the functionality is there.
This is where I think the time needs to be spent in programming the controllers. But variables like cart weight (6 person vs 4 person vs 2 person, lithium vs lead acid, 1 person vs fully loaded etc...) play a major role as well. My guess is factory carts have the same programming regardless of some of these variables.

I've had my Navitas (AC motor / controller) for exactly 2 years now, and I can tell you that the first few versions of FW were really bad (IMO) WRT to driveability in certain situations - paved bumpy sections of trails specifically was one such situation, and trying to hold a steady 12-15 mph speed in these situations wasn't great. At some point - probably 6 or 8 months into ownership they re-wrote the "dynamics" portion of the FW code dealing with blending deceleration with re-acceleration etc... and it made a huge difference. I've got mine where it is very smooth with a great "feel" across speeds and conditions, with the exception of a 72v issue Navitas has yet to iron out WRT re-accelerating from lower speeds in some cases. Wasn't an issue wth 48v input.

I can say that early on with my Navitas I also took Regen all the way down in an effort to mitigate jerkiness. There was always a small amount of it (regen), even if you "turned it down" but it didn't completely cure the issue. I've found that regen is a great thing, but the problem is in the control of it - it's like the carts don't know if they should slow down or speed up - middle ground is hard to find. I drove a Mustang Mach E (electric car) for a few days recently and it has a "one pedal" drive mode, using Regen for virtualy all normal case braking w/out needing the brake pedal. It was incredibly precise - unreal really - just really, really well implemented. This is what motor control COULD be, but I do realize we're talking golf carts here. While I haven't achieved that level of perfection with my Navitas, it's pretty darn good while still retaining enough regen to take care of most initial braking. Increasing regen further though and things begin to feel slightly jerky to really jerky if you keep going. I'll say that when I first got my cart (Onward) and before changing motor / controller / batteries, the cart was completely stock and was set up for mid-level regen from Club Car. I found that horribly jerky. I know others were / are happy with that set up though.

I haven't driven one in a while, but the stock RXVs (AC motor) aren't the greatest in this regard eiter, but are fairly smooth generally speaking.

The Navitas also has a wide range of adjustments (all of which I've customized) in order to reduce or eradicate the issues you mention. It sounds like many or all of such may be available in the PC software for the Icon - I hope somebody can chime in on their observations. What I will add though is that no amount of adjustment of various parameters wll help if the underlying FW that the parameters slot into isn't well engineered. This is the case in my own experience, anyway.

Lastly I'd suggest some people aren't sensitive to driving feel and as long as it stops and goes it's all good, so some are going to say there is a problem while others might say their's doesn't do it.

[fsu1tm]

Thanks for the feedback, fstop. The line #50 in the programming software (maybe) did ease some of the jerkiness of the pedal. Initially I thought that it had solved it all but towards the end of my test ride, I started to feel it again. Although, somewhat less. I was hoping that someone would confirm for me that line #50 is turning up or down regen. As I said, I come from series carts that just coast if you let off the pedal. I like that especially considering the ICON has 4-wheel disc brakes.

This isn't to say I haven't driven regen carts. I'm well used to how they act on golf courses. But the ICON will do 25 mph straight out of the box. With regen too high, it can be uncomfortable. While golf course carts will seldom do over 12 mph so regen is not that noticeable a factor.

I'll keep playing with a few settings and see if things get better. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

[fstop]

Originally Posted by fsu1tm

Thanks for the feedback, fstop. The line #50 in the programming software (maybe) did ease some of the jerkiness of the pedal. Initially I thought that it had solved it all but towards the end of my test ride, I started to feel it again. Although, somewhat less. I was hoping that someone would confirm for me that line #50 is turning up or down regen. As I said, I come from series carts that just coast if you let off the pedal. I like that especially considering the ICON has 4-wheel disc brakes.

This isn't to say I haven't driven regen carts. I'm well used to how they act on golf courses. But the ICON will do 25 mph straight out of the box. With regen too high, it can be uncomfortable. While golf course carts will seldom do over 12 mph so regen is not that noticeable a factor.

I'll keep playing with a few settings and see if things get better. Again, thanks for your thoughts.

I'm sure there are multiple adjustments in there that should allow you to improve it - just a matter of finding which ones and what values to plug in.

I'll say when I first drove a regen cart I hated it, but mine is really smooth and its a light amount - even at higher (35+) or moderate (25-30) speeds if you let off completely you can't feel any jolt at all - just a very smooth transition into a "coast" with a bit of a friction feel. Hard to explain but I'll say I've never liked a "factory" implementation of Regen. I've messed with tons of parameters in my controller to get to where I am - feel like I've done the QC for Navitas at this point.

Good luck getting it zeroed in to your liking.

[fsu1tm]

OK. I happened to be at a rental house this past week for New Years. The rental house came with a 2020 ICON I60, which had a smooth throttle response. So, lucky me that I had brought my laptop and programming cable. I downloaded a copy of the settings into a .neos file on my laptop.

Today, I uploaded the .neos file from the rental cart to my 2021 I60 and tried the throttle reaction. Pleased to say it's much, much better. No longer is it jerky when I try to maintain that 12 - 14 mph speed. Of course a couple of items I left as they were, such as the max rpm of 6500 forward and 2500 reverse. The rental cart had the default (5500 and 2000) values still set.

Anyway, if some of you are having the same jerkiness when trying to maintain a particular speed, you may want to load the attached file (rename the .txt to a .neos) and see if it helps your situation. Disclaimer: Make a backup of your current configuration first so you can revert if needed. Also, this file has only been used from a 2020 I60 to a 2021 I60. I have no idea if using it on a different model, such as an I40L or I60L, or even a different year will have the same results. I do plan on installing it on a friends I40 soon. Let me know if any of you would like me to post those results.

[ATrain]

Originally Posted by fsu1tm

OK. I happened to be at a rental house this past week for New Years. The rental house came with a 2020 ICON I60, which had a smooth throttle response. So, lucky me that I had brought my laptop and programming cable. I downloaded a copy of the settings into a .neos file on my laptop.

Today, I uploaded the .neos file from the rental cart to my 2021 I60 and tried the throttle reaction. Pleased to say it's much, much better. No longer is it jerky when I try to maintain that 12 - 14 mph speed. Of course a couple of items I left as they were, such as the max rpm of 6500 forward and 2500 reverse. The rental cart had the default (5500 and 2000) values still set.

Anyway, if some of you are having the same jerkiness when trying to maintain a particular speed, you may want to load the attached file (rename the .txt to a .neos) and see if it helps your situation. Disclaimer: Make a backup of your current configuration first so you can revert if needed. Also, this file has only been used from a 2020 I60 to a 2021 I60. I have no idea if using it on a different model, such as an I40L or I60L, or even a different year will have the same results. I do plan on installing it on a friends I40 soon. Let me know if any of you would like me to post those results.

Great info! Do you know the line changes that made the difference? It's super easy to tell with the software.

Just import your old, jerky settings and it will highlight everything in red that was changed. Then close the software without writing to your cart.

You might consider backing up your current settings if you're nervous, but it sounds like you have a good grasp on it.

Oh and bringing your cable along is kind of weird but hey, glad you did!

[fsu1tm]

Originally Posted by ATrain

Great info! Do you know the line changes that made the difference? It's super easy to tell with the software.

Just import your old, jerky settings and it will highlight everything in red that was changed. Then close the software without writing to your cart.

You might consider backing up your current settings if you're nervous, but it sounds like you have a good grasp on it.

Oh and bringing your cable along is kind of weird but hey, glad you did!

Taking the cable with me was planned. I knew the rental had a 2020 I60 that was purchased from a large dealer in that area. If anyone was to know how to program these carts, it's that dealer. My dealer, on the other hand, is new with ICONs and well let's just say they're not much for programming.

Attached are the screen shots of my current config compared to the original config from when I purchased the cart. My current config (the good one) is the OLD column and the original config is the NEW column. The biggest change that is understandable to me is line 53 - Brake Rate. Dropping it from 10 to 5 may have made a difference in the jerkiness. Not sure. I had already tried playing with line 50. It helped some to increase line 50 when I thought it made more sense to decrease. I don't know.

A lot of the changes are in the section for torque. Not sure how this will affect my performance since I'm in a hilly area of Florida (yes, there is one). My cart did slow down significantly on hills before. I'll have to test. The dealer who setup the rental cart is in a flat beach area. Also, there are significant changes in the Motor Data values. I know that the Tuning software says "Reference Only. Don't Change" but I let the rental config change the values anyway. Hopefully I won't disintegrate my cart.

Let me know what you think.

[ATrain]

Originally Posted by fsu1tm

Taking the cable with me was planned. I knew the rental had a 2020 I60 that was purchased from a large dealer in that area. If anyone was to know how to program these carts, it's that dealer. My dealer, on the other hand, is new with ICONs and well let's just say they're not much for programming.

Attached are the screen shots of my current config compared to the original config from when I purchased the cart. My current config (the good one) is the OLD column and the original config is the NEW column. The biggest change that is understandable to me is line 53 - Brake Rate. Dropping it from 10 to 5 may have made a difference in the jerkiness. Not sure. I had already tried playing with line 50. It helped some to increase line 50 when I thought it made more sense to decrease. I don't know.

A lot of the changes are in the section for torque. Not sure how this will affect my performance since I'm in a hilly area of Florida (yes, there is one). My cart did slow down significantly on hills before. I'll have to test. The dealer who setup the rental cart is in a flat beach area. Also, there are significant changes in the Motor Data values. I know that the Tuning software says "Reference Only. Don't Change" but I let the rental config change the values anyway. Hopefully I won't disintegrate my cart.

Let me know what you think.

Interesting. I'm just wondering what some of the changes do.

Lines #1 & #2...not sure what the purpose of that is? Perhaps to narrow the accelerator potentiometer range? Maybe that makes it easier to go different speeds? Like if you want to go fast, medium, slow...sometimes it's hard because it can feel either 0 or 100.

Line #34 - No clue what "Speed Filter" does?

#53 - I think that's related to the regenerative braking too

#56 - If I had to guess, this is probably the time it takes for the cart to put itself in "park" by engaging the e-brake when you're at a complete stop? It looks like a slightly longer delay is set.

#128 - No clue?

#132/#133 - No clue?

#135/#137 - I think that is related to regenerative braking

#139-148 - These are related to your acceleration rate and torque settings.
#149-151 - I think these are torque settings too

#152+ - Strange, I've never seen those modified before? What cart do you have again??

[fsu1tm]

Originally Posted by ATrain

What cart do you have again??

I have a 2021 I60. Purchased about two months ago.

That 0 - 100 feeling you mentioned doesn't happen with this config. Not sure if it's the lines 1 and 2 or 53 that's making the difference but it is smooth now. I may go back and set 152+ back to their original settings and see if there's a difference. Also, I plan on trying this same config on an I40 to see how different it is. That cart is located in south Georgia and there are some good hills. The cart really bogs on the hills. Hoping this new config will help that too.