04-30-2019, 01:41 PM | #11 |
Getting Wild
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 92
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
|
Today | |
Sponsored Links
__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum |
|
04-30-2019, 01:56 PM | #12 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leander TX
Posts: 166
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Well, like most dribble on the interweb it’s just a opinion. I just think it’s a safe precaution to physically observe voltage of the cells and/or have a few fail safes built in to make sure you don’t get over 4.2v. You know, spread a little faith.
|
04-30-2019, 01:57 PM | #13 | |
Getting Wild
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 92
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Quote:
Paralleling the modules is fine as long as you also parallel the center taps. Swelling can happen with old modules, and can also happen due to overcharging. One concern with paralleled modules is balancing - BMS boards typically use fairly small current to balance the modules, and having very large capacity (132Ah) can cause for BMS to be unable to keep up with the charger. I went back to see if you gave a description of your setup, but there wasn't much. So how are you protecting, charging, balancing the modules ? |
|
04-30-2019, 03:36 PM | #14 |
Not Yet Wild
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 8
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Thanks for the feedback. The swollen packs were taken out of service immediately. All batteries were pre-balanced and I had checked the individual voltages and pretty quickly saw that some were falling out of balance. I was taking the pack apart to re-balance the order of the cells to see if it would improve the behavior. I am fairly convinced the modules had already been over discharged before I received them. The pack is dissembled so nothing to see currently, but it was bus barred and compressed using nissan plates and threaded rod as I have seen in many builds on this site. The cart is un-upgraded 98 ezgo txt. Motor has been replaced, but it was just a stock replacement. Wires swapped out for 2 gauge and rotary FW changed to a reversing contactor.
|
04-30-2019, 03:46 PM | #15 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 9,329
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
A BMS can only balance the cells at the Top so if You measure the voltage after use the only way the cells will stay balanced is if they are exactly the same capacity.
You should typically allow enough headroom above the "charging voltage" before the "max voltage" for the BMS and shunts to do their work. It also helps the longevity of the pack (charging to 85%) since the cells are under the most stress when fully charged. |
04-30-2019, 09:54 PM | #16 | ||
Getting Wild
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 92
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Depends on the BMS. I use TinyBMS for my builds, and it has a programmable threshold.
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
05-01-2019, 08:19 AM | #17 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 9,329
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Good questions, I will add more detail in case other members have similar questions.
1 & 2) The concept of "balancing" is to bring cells to the same known and returnable SOC level. The analogy is that the cells are like water cylinders of the same height but different diameters and therefore hold different amounts of water. If You stack them side by side and remove 1/2 of the water from each, the water will be at the same level in all of them, but the amount of water you removed from each cylinder was different. Lithium cells connected in Series have the same amount of energy removed from each of them. In the water cylinder example above if some of the cylinders have 60 gallons capacity and some 40 gallons capacity, removing 20 gallons from each of them will result on the 40 gallon cylinders being at 50% level/SOC and the 60 gallon cylinders being at the 66% level/SOC. If you then add 20 gallons back to each cylinder (charging), they all go back/return to the 100% level/SOC. That is why it only makes sense to use a BMS to top balance since we know if the cells have different capacities their SOC and voltage will differ as You discharge them in Series. Some folks prefer to bottom balance the pack or bring the water level to near empty 0%level/SOC and not use a BMS at all. As you add 40 gallows to each cylinder, You will fill up the 40 gallons but only reach the 66% level/SOC of the 60 gallons cylinder. This is again expected since all you are concerned is that when You again remove 40 gallons they will all return to 0% level at the same time. Differences in manufacturing or changes in internal resistance as cells age take a long time to develop and it is only a concern for folks that bottom balance their pack since a BMS is always top balancing and easily corrects those differences. Sometimes the differences the BMS is correcting are introduced by the BMS setup itself due to differences in the ADC converters or wiring and connections resistance. If You have positive experience doing some kind of "Mid Balancing", please share with us. 3) As far as increasing the longevity of Lithium packs by not charging them to 100% SOC, that is a very well documented fact due to stress caused to the cells. Just look at this one article for example, Table 4 indicates how much longer You can expect your pack to last if You don't charge to 100%. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteriesYou can also look at pretty much all electric cars on the Market and their "Daily charge" vs "Long Range" charging recommendations. |
05-01-2019, 08:28 AM | #18 |
Just Gone
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,549
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Sergio;
Very good analogy and I think that comment should be a sticky in itself under The 'All Things Lithium' subforum. This should help anyone wanting to convert to lithium understand the importance of using a BMS and the reason behind it. |
05-01-2019, 10:08 AM | #19 | ||||||
Getting Wild
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 92
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
Quote:
their lower or upper voltage limits during charge or discharge. There is some relationship between SOC and voltage, but given it's not direct, no manufacturer states anything other than voltage limits in the specs. Quote:
the ones with higher internal resistance. Battery packs produced by large vendors will have closely matched cells, but even then over time they will develop variances. Salvaged cells are even more likely to be mismatched if they don't come as original packs. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||
05-01-2019, 10:28 AM | #20 |
Gone Wild
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 9,329
|
Re: Parallel Nissan Leaf Modules
cricketo, it seems like you are more interested in arguing nuances than contributing to the site.
Mid-balancing to me just seems like a waste of time even if you are absolutely sure the cells will behave exactly the same since different capacity cells will change in voltage according to their own SOC. If the cells are wired in series they cannot have different current going through them, that can only happen in parallel arrangements. If You look at the table in the link I provided, the voltages recommended are shown and there are many sources like evbattercenter that have plots of measured SOC vs cell voltage for the Leaf cells. Do you have any recommendations for members on the best way to configure their BMS? |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Want 7 more Leaf Modules...knew this would happen | Lithium EZGO | |||
Nissan Leaf batteries set up. | Lithium Club Car | |||
Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules | All things Lithium | |||
Nissan Leaf cells | Extreme DC! | |||
Nissan Leaf Balancing | Electric EZGO |