New lithium battery discussion

[lithium.paul]

Hello ladies and gents- I work for a lithium battery supplier in Salt Lake. It didn't take long there to recognize how cool our batteries would be in a golf cart, so we headed down to our local dealer and picked up a 2006 CC Precedent, just off a local country club.
2 months later here we are with a cart we totally love. (Well, a few carts... we couldn't stop at just one!) Lithium batteries and golf carts were made for each other. For a while people have said that lithium is too expensive, but the prices have settled over the last couple of years. A 12v lithium battery costs less than $300, completely outperforming Trojan T-1275's and lasting 4 times as many cycles.
It's been fun getting into this and I look forward to lots of interesting banter about just about anything. I may ask questions from time to time, but I'm mostly here to spread the good word that it's finally time to ditch lead-acid.
After looking good and hard at it, I really think that E-Z-Go, Yamaha, and Club Car all know that lithium battery's are better, but they last so much longer that they wouldn't sell nearly as many batteries. And that means less money for them, but more money from cart owners. Lithium actually saves you money now that the prices are down!

[scottyb]

We welcome battery discussion, not Spam. Please post the brand and model of battery you are talking about and remember that advertising is paid for on this site. Unpaid advertising will disappear. If it becomes a repeat problem the source will disappear.

[villajoe]

any pics? how heavy are 4 of those 12v batteries? (I'm assuming a ton lighter than lead acid). how about running time?

i can't wait till these batteries are the norm and prices come down further!

[Gary B]

My hobby is building bicycles from old discarded ones.
Some I stick electric motors on and have a ball.
Some have lead acid and some LiFePo (lithium).

Depends on the application and lipo is much lighter but lead acid is much cheaper and less worrisome (for me, anyway).

Having said that, and if I could afford it, I'd switch to good quality LiFePo for my cart without hesitation. With a good warranty, BMS and controller.

With the weight savings, performance should skyrocket.

...and having said that, capacitor power is the one i'm waiting for.

36volt 12amp lead acid...
StandBikeDone.jpg

36volt 20amp lithium...
SkidLoader1.jpg
Skidloader3.jpg

Here's a link to some construction pics if interested.

Disclaimer: I'm in no way affiliated with any battery people. Or bicycle people, for that matter.

[Andy4639]

Cool bikes! I like those.

[Gary B]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

Cool bikes! I like those.

Thanks Andy.
Still trying to re-invent the wheel.

I went China cheap on my 20amp lithium and still paid as much as a new set of 6v cart batts.
'Course the sealed lead acid set was $200.

Due to the flooding of the interstate, the traffic now goes thru main street in our little town.
They put up a speed sensor sign and, according to that, I got the lithium bike zero to 24mph in about 40 feet.
Almost exceeded the speed limit..HOO-RAA!

-------

Those that say "energy can neither be created or destroyed" haven't shorted a battery bank.

[sonicj]

those bikes are dope!

i was just thinkin' the other day that i need to build a eBike and the other other day i was thinkin' it might be fun to chop up some frames and build a recumbent! so, how does it ride? scary? what did the seat come from?

looks like you used head tubes for the steering pivots?

nice work!
-sj

[Gary B]

Originally Posted by sonicj

those bikes are dope!

i was just thinkin' the other day that i need to build a eBike and the other other day i was thinkin' it might be fun to chop up some frames and build a recumbent! so, how does it ride? scary? what did the seat come from?

looks like you used head tubes for the steering pivots?

nice work!
-sj

Made the bike from a Mongoose BMX with two old mountain bikes.
The stand-up bike from three BMX and 2" auto tailpipe. The three bottom brackets just fit over the pipe.
Sure hated to cut up some of these old beauties but...

Made the seat with emt and window screen cloth. Revised it with a foam and lycra for more comfort.

Yep. Head tubes and threaded fork ends with headsets.
Just a fun experiment.

That steering was antsy at speed. I've since converted to apehangers.
Much more stable and fun. Hated to lose the chrome horsehead tho.

But, hey...enough...this is a cart forum.

[Offtwice]

I researched lithium batteries for my cart, but when you get into comparable amp hours, they get very expensive. The reason I lost interest was due to a conversation I had with the company that sold me my AC motor and controller. They described that they had begun testing lithium batteries in (electric) car conversions but that when the packs are increased to 72 volts or higher, the batteries become unstable. They described an incident where one of the batteries exploded, caught fire and they literally threw it into a 50 gallon drum where it burned submerged under water!

Of course, this is only what I have been told, but this company is not in the business of selling batteries, so I don't have any reason to believe they would be lying.

Scared me enough to return to lead batteries.

I am anxious for this technology though!!

OT

[lithium.paul]

Not to get all scientific here, but throwing a lithium battery into a 50-gal. drum of water is about the worst thing you could do - H20 and Li ions aren't a good combo at all - bad chemical reaction.
I don't know which company you were referring to, but what you described is essentially why an EV conversion with lithium batteries requires a BMS.
In a 36V or 48V application with a comparatively small motor and controller, with quality 12V block batteries instead of 3V individual cells, a disaster like that would be extremely unlikely.

As far as Amp hours go, you can't just look at a 125Ah lead-acid battery and say it's 3x the power of a 40Ah lithium battery. I don't know how the ratings are given but it's like comparing apples and oranges. I personally I threw 60Ah lithiums into a CC Precedent and when I went to do range testing, it ran for 2 1/2 hours straight, no stops.