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Old 08-17-2023, 04:06 PM   #1
AnotherTango
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Default Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

This might not be a lithium issue, but I want to start here, first. I'm dealing with a 2012 Club Car Precedent using the late 2012/2013 Excel wiring system.

I installed the lithium batteries and added a reducer and some accessories on the reducer and it worked - with one issue: A start delay.

I have to back out of my shed. With lead acid batteries, I'd switch the FNR switch to REVERSE and turn on the key. (Sometimes I'd do that in reverse order.) It would always start. Now when I do that, sometimes it starts, sometimes there's a delay and the backup buzzer doesn't even turn on for a while. Eventually it does - never has taken more than a minute, but I'm wondering if that delay after I turn things on could be a sign of a bigger issue. I would flip the FNR switch back and forth and test the accelerator. I'm not sure if it was just taking time to turn on or if fiddling with the switch or the accelerator made it work.

So there was a delay in turning on sometimes, but it was working.

Last week I did some work on the FNR switch. The plan is to add a FNR DPDT toggle on a printed panel near the wheel, so it's easy to reach. (Back issues - sometimes the switch on the seat front is hard for me to reach.) So I pulled the connections off the FNR switch and pulled wires through a loom, under the cart, to the dash. I was not yet using those wires, but I did have to do some work to get them in place. While doing ANY of this work, the RUN/TOW switch was set to TOW and the batteries were turned off.

After removing the wires from the FNR switch, I turned the batteries on and turned RUN/TOW back to RUN. Nothing happened, which I didn't expect. Then I connected the middle wire to the FNR to the blue reverse wire. There was no extra wiring in there that the current would go through. Nothing happened - the buzzer didn't go on at all. I turned on the key and pushed on the accelerator and there was no motion and no solenoid click throughout this test. I tried the brown forward wire and tried the accelerator. Also nothing.

So it's now sitting there and doing nothing. The 12V reducer is working and anything running on that is doing okay.

I have theories and a lot of things I've been trying to research, but I'm getting nowhere.

What should I do and what can I test to find out why my cart isn't starting?

(And if this thread needs to go in general electrical repair, I'm fine with it being moved.)
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Old 08-17-2023, 06:28 PM   #2
CP241
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

Did you bypass OBC when you installed the lithium?
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Old 08-17-2023, 09:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP241 View Post
Did you bypass OBC when you installed the lithium?
No. I didn't know about the charging issues with the OBC and my suspicion is that's the issue, or the root cause. I asked about this in the OBC thread and the response has been crickets. My model, the late 2012-2013, is a bit different (from what I hear) than others. The 2011 service manual LOOKs like it might work. I was hoping to get some clear answers before I bypassed it, but it's been about a week now with no response in that sticky. I started going through it, but there are terms like REGEN2 and ERIC that I have been trying to work out (found out what ERIC is - but not REGEN2). That thread is 40 pages long and even at the start are references I don't get, so I was really hoping to get some answers or guidance on disabling the OBC.

(I did ask about it under the Lithium forum, here, and was told to discuss it on the sticky.)
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Old 08-18-2023, 02:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

Okay, I found the non-sticky thread on replacing the OBC - it's far more useful than the sticky one. (I noticed you've also been participating in that one a few times.) I'm going to try to bypass my OBC sometime on Friday or Saturday.

Also, since you asked about if I had bypassed it, I'm wondering if people are reporting issues that show up with the OBC if it's still hooked up and no longer being used as part of the charging system?
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Old 08-18-2023, 08:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

Your cart SHOULD have an OBC if it’s a 2012.

Yes the OBC can cause issues like you describe, it will basically shut the controller down when it has not seen a charge cycle in such and such time period (I don’t know the exact conditions off the top of my head).

It definitely needs to be bypassed. I’ve never done it on an excel, my cart is an IQ. but I can’t imagine it’s that difficult. Maybe someone that has done it can chime in.
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Old 08-18-2023, 12:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by CP241 View Post
Your cart SHOULD have an OBC if it’s a 2012.
Yes, it's got one, I have ID'ed it and even posted in the huge sticky about removing it. (No answers.) I think that sticky is so long and has so many different questions people are tending to ignore it at this point. I found the 2nd thread on removing the OBC and have commented there, with my thoughts on that and why we need a 2nd sticky on it.

Quote:
Yes the OBC can cause issues like you describe, it will basically shut the controller down when it has not seen a charge cycle in such and such time period (I don’t know the exact conditions off the top of my head).
Actually, that's a big relief! After studying the wiring diagrams, the only thing I found that might explain the starting delays was the interlock system. With the gray wire floating, and not knowing just what, on that line, told the computer the charger was plugged in, I've been wondering if, somehow, the computer could be mis-reading that line. (Or if something like induction could be causing a false positive.)

Quote:
It definitely needs to be bypassed. I’ve never done it on an excel, my cart is an IQ. but I can’t imagine it’s that difficult. Maybe someone that has done it can chime in.
It doesn't look that difficult. I have been asking a fair amount of questions about it, here and on *********** (and, at least on this, I haven't been getting help there and have had one stubborn person making things more difficult). I did have several concerns about doing this, aside from the normal, "I want to triple check this before I do something that could blow out my controller and brick my cart until I spend a lot of money" concerns:

- I spent time talking to a helpful tech at a dealership. He's been willing to answer questions and help me where he can and he told me I don't just have a 2012, but it's a late 2012 model that uses the same Excel wiring the 2013 does. There are no manuals online for this particular model and, apparently, it's the last or 2nd to last model that used an OBC, so there seem to be some things that are slightly different, so I've wanted to make sure I knew exactly what I was doing and that there were no differences in the models that could make a difference.

- I was working on making changes to the FNR switch and things went dead when I started testing that and it seemed a bit of a coincidence that everything went 100% dead, for the first time, when I turned things back on after starting those changes. I was so sure it was a bad controller, I ordered a reman one, then checked all the wiring to make sure things were all okay before putting in the new one. Still dead - and, as you know, that's likely the OBC. So I'm just double-checking things before I run the risk of blowing out my new controller. (Actually, I'm going to put the old one back in to test this - find out if it's still good.)

I'll be doing all this later today and I'll report what happens.
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Old 08-18-2023, 02:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

I put my original controller back in the cart - I figured if I was trying something new and I don't know if that controller is broken, I'd rather try it on that one first for two reasons: 1) If it goes bad, I'd rather it blow out that one than the newer one, and 2) If it works, it tells me that controller is good, after all. (And instead of sending it in for the core, I can sell it for market price and make enough to cover some of my work on this.)

So I unplugged the 6 pin connector to the computer and jumped the white and light blue wires. I turned on the batteries and the RUN/TOW switch, connected the power wire for the reverse switch to the reverse wire and the buzzer sounded - so it was the OBC using the interlock.

BUT - now I have another problem. I turned on the ignition and pushed the accelerator and it won't move - won't move forward or back. Didn't hear the solenoid click, either. (Can't remember - when does that click? When I turn on the ignition, I think?) Never heard it click at all. So I'm going to trace all the wires to see if I've broken some connections with all my work and, if they're all in good shape, I'll try swapping out the controller - just in case it's partially working and the motor control circuit is bad.

If anyone has a suggestion on what I should try now, I'm open to it.
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Old 08-22-2023, 10:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: Using Lithium Batteries - worked, now need troubleshooting help

Success!

My OBC is now completely out of my cart, not only disconnected, but totally removed.

A few notes on the OBC and removing it (remember, I'm using Excel wiring):

1) The key part is to disconnect the OBC and bypass the interlock line. Do this by connecting the white line to the blue or light blue. Be sure to do that on the cart side of the connector. There is only one data line connector from the OBC. Other connections are the black battery ground line and a gray line to the charger socket. (I can't remember if there's a separate red heavy duty wire coming from the B+ line, but I don't think so.) Once both ends of that connector are separated, and the blue (or light blue) and white lines are connected, the OBC is no longer functioning as part of your golf cart's system.

2) After disconnecting the data line, I don't see why you need to do anything else. If you want to remove the OBC completely (and maybe sell it if it's still good), then disconnect the gray line from the charger. Also, while you're at it, disconnect the black and red lines from the charger socket and go on and remove the charge socket and those wires, so they don't accidentally rub up against something and short something out.

3) The final part of this involves cutting cables - big black B- battery cables. I ordered a pack of battery cable connectors from Amazon. I ended up having to use one for #6AWG wire on the end of the cable. To finish removing the OBC, I had to cut the black cable going from the OBC to the heavy duty B- terminal on the controller. In my case, that cable, a #8AWG cable, and a 3rd black cable were all brought together and terminated in a single cable connector. The only way to get the OBC line disconnected was to cut it just before the connector. I used a much smaller eye connector on that cable. Then I had to cut the big B- wire that goes through the OBC. I cut it just behind the connector in the battery compartment. Once I had these two cables cut, I was finally able to unscrew the bolts on the OBC and completely remove it.

I had a concern that the yellow line from the OBC might control the cart motor, but apparently it did not.
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