'09 CC DS engine swap questions

[Ryanrat311]

First time posting, long time lurker...

I acquired a 2009 CC DS from a local university for next to nothing. The engine spins over freely in both directions without a hint of compression. I'm immediately thinking of doing a 420/459 predator swap.

In my research, the FE290 that is in there now spins CW at the clutch (according to arrow on flywheel) and the Predator will spin CCW.

So now the questions which likely will spark others:

1) Do I need to regear the transmission or will changing out the spring in the driven pulley on the transmission be fine? I'm not looking to do any engine mods for now.

2) Can I use the driver and driven pulleys that are there now on the Predator or would swapping both to something else be a better option?

[Ricks_club]

Originally Posted by Ryanrat311

First time posting, long time lurker...

I acquired a 2009 CC DS from a local university for next to nothing. The engine spins over freely in both directions without a hint of compression. I'm immediately thinking of doing a 420/459 predator swap.

In my research, the FE290 that is in there now spins CW at the clutch (according to arrow on flywheel) and the Predator will spin CCW.

So now the questions which likely will spark others:

1) Do I need to regear the transmission or will changing out the spring in the driven pulley on the transmission be fine? I'm not looking to do any engine mods for now.

2) Can I use the driver and driven pulleys that are there now on the Predator or would swapping both to something else be a better option?

Welcome to BGW

Do some searching on this form. You are not the first one with this question.

Richard

[CP241]

There’s a good chance the rod is broken. Or the camshaft gear sheared off the camshaft and the valves are not spinning. Both are easy and cheap fixes.

You can swap a predator into it. You will want to install 8:1 or 6:1 gears because reverse gear will now go forwards and vice versa due to the engine rotating the opposite direction. Reverse gear is quite a bit higher than forward so with an engine swap you won’t break or hurt anything, but… your max speed will be like 8mph unless you re-gear the rear end.

I’d personally tear down the engine and see what went wrong. A new connecting rod, counterbalance rod bearings, and full rebuild is usually under a couple hundred bucks and a few hours of your time. As long as the counterbalance weight didn’t make a big window in the back of the motor (which you can’t see until you remove the motor) it’s totally rebuildable. And much cheaper than a swap… plus it’s quieter, smoother, and the cart will carry more value monetarily if you go to sell it with a stock engine than a predator swap.

[Ryanrat311]

So I was able to get all the nasty fuel and debris out of the tank and fuel lines. New fuel filter installed. Also found a lawn battery to toss in for now to make sure it has spark and it sure does.

The oil in it looks alright, at least no water or gas, but I will change it.

I put a little oil in the cylinder through the spark plug hole and the compression may have come up a touch (spinning by hand, not using S/G) so that means I need new rings potentially? I did confirm with a dowel rod that the piston is coming up and down so the connecting rod is likely ok?

I also checked the valves at TDC and man was the exhaust valve very loose. I got back to around .004" lash but I did have to turn the adjuster pretty far. Compression was still very low to non-existent after adjusting the valves. It spins over very easily if you try to hit the gas pedal and barely coughs when giving it starting fluid.

So I think I need to take the head off and inspect the valves, vale seals and piston and rings.

Anything I'm missing at this point from the more experienced folks? I'm hoping to get this running without pulling the motor from the cart but I will if I have to.

[Springbok]

Originally Posted by CP241

I’d personally tear down the engine and see what went wrong. A new connecting rod, counterbalance rod bearings, and full rebuild is usually under a couple hundred bucks and a few hours of your time. As long as the counterbalance weight didn’t make a big window in the back of the motor (which you can’t see until you remove the motor) it’s totally rebuildable. And much cheaper than a swap… plus it’s quieter, smoother, and the cart will carry more value monetarily if you go to sell it with a stock engine than a predator swap.

I second this.

[CP241]

There’s a good chance the valves are worn down if they were that loose.

See the fe290 rebuild thread in the sticky section and it should walk you through pretty much everything. May be broken rings also, had a couple carts I bought with broken rings. I think the one I did in that thread had a broken ring if I remember correctly, that was a few years ago

[Ryanrat311]

Originally Posted by CP241

There’s a good chance the valves are worn down if they were that loose.

See the fe290 rebuild thread in the sticky section and it should walk you through pretty much everything. May be broken rings also, had a couple carts I bought with broken rings. I think the one I did in that thread had a broken ring if I remember correctly, that was a few years ago

Just read through the sticky and have top end rebuild parts on order, thanks for the help thus far!

[Ryanrat311]

Well I got the engine out but can't get the clutch off, I'll see about a puller in the morning unless there are other better ideas?

I got the head off at least and I feel I found the issue... exhaust valve was stuck open. I knocked it loose and there was a large build ring on the stem keeping it open. This explains why adjusting the valve before seemed so far out of spec and also did nothing to help.

So I'm at a crossroads... I have a full top end rebuild kit with piston, rings, valves, springs, valve seals and all the gaskets. The cylinder bore looks great, pics may not be the best but its smooth as glass and no scratches anywhere. I'm inclined to think the piston and rings are fine and therefore not needing replaced. So that just leaves the head parts to replace and put back together. Am I wrong in not wanting to get the clutch pulled off and replace the piston and rings?

[Aggiesdm]

Originally Posted by Ryanrat311

Well I got the engine out but can't get the clutch off, I'll see about a puller in the morning unless there are other better ideas?

I got the head off at least and I feel I found the issue... exhaust valve was stuck open. I knocked it loose and there was a large build ring on the stem keeping it open. This explains why adjusting the valve before seemed so far out of spec and also did nothing to help.

So I'm at a crossroads... I have a full top end rebuild kit with piston, rings, valves, springs, valve seals and all the gaskets. The cylinder bore looks great, pics may not be the best but its smooth as glass and no scratches anywhere. I'm inclined to think the piston and rings are fine and therefore not needing replaced. So that just leaves the head parts to replace and put back together. Am I wrong in not wanting to get the clutch pulled off and replace the piston and rings?

At this point, I'd get a clutch puller bolt from Amazon (less than $20) and replace the rings and hone the cylinder. If you do this and do the work on the valves, you essentially have a rebuilt motor and won't have to worry about it.

The work is pretty easy and should be able to do it in a few hours with the right tools! Let us know how it goes.

[Ryanrat311]

Originally Posted by Aggiesdm

At this point, I'd get a clutch puller bolt from Amazon (less than $20) and replace the rings and hone the cylinder. If you do this and do the work on the valves, you essentially have a rebuilt motor and won't have to worry about it.

The work is pretty easy and should be able to do it in a few hours with the right tools! Let us know how it goes.

The top end kit I got came with a piston as well as rings. What kind of wear would I be looking for on the existing piston to justify swapping it for the new one vs keeping it with a new set of rings?

I grabbed some bolts from the hardware to DIY a puller so I should have that popped off tonight to get a better look inside the case and the piston/cylinder.