Front Disc brake issue...any thoughts?

[DaveTM]

I have Jakes front disc brakes on my cart. Had 'em on for prolly ten years now. Long enough to be on my second set of disc pads.

This am I took it out and when I hit the brakes, the front end did a severe pull to the right. Tried it several times and does it every time.

So, my first thought is stuck caliper....but before that I checked the brake fluid reservoir and found the fluid level to be at the bottom. So, I filled it up. BTW....when no brake is applied the cart goes fine...no squeaking or brake noise.

Now, I don't have any leaks and no fluid is on my garage floor. I also haven't checked the fluid level for prolly 4 years. (If it ain't broke.....)

Then I jacked up the left tire thinking the right brake is grabbing and the left isn't....but the left tire is "locked up" when the brake is on, and it's free when the brake is off.

I have not checked the right side yet....(not at my best today) but I'm wondering what other issues may cause this?

Thanks!

[Reddawg454]

Restricted right hose or frozen caliper can cause this. The fluid must go somewhere and if it can't get through one side you'll get it all on the other side. You usually can't tell by just looking at them. We remove them and try to blow through them. We replace numerous on cars/trucks.

[DaveTM]

Reddawg, thanks! I've inspected my brake lines and I don't find anything that would cause such an issue.....I didn't jack it up and roll under it to see if that is an issue. I'll check that out.

I did manage to muster enough energy to jack up the passenger side and what I found was the tie rod end on the right was somewhat "loose". But in addition to that the lower A arm on the Jakes lift had a loose bolt where it connects in the "center". When I shook the passenger side tire I noticed that connection was moving back 'n fourth....not suppose to do that.

So, I tightened that up, along with all the connections (the rest were fine). I also tightened up the passenger side tie rod end (Dewalt electric impact drivers are great!) and then lubed 'em up.

I figured I got it "fixed" when I tightened up that lower A arm bolt, and even more so when I tightened up the outside tie rod end......but not so much.

I'll get a chance in a few days to check where the tie rod ends connect to the steering and see if that's a problem.

The cart doesn't seem to be out of alignment. I've got a slight toe in. Plus most of my riding is on dirt so I wouldn't expect to have much in tire wear.

The odd part is it seem to just start all at once.

[DaveTM]

I just checked the alignment. Front tires center to center are 42.5" and the back of the front tire is 43.0".

Also, when I sit over enough to see what the passenger tire is doing when I hit the brakes hard, the passenger tire "pulls" right hard.

I'm thinking with that bolt that came loose, I now need to re-adjust the alignment (tie rod end) so the alignment difference between front and back of the tire is the 1/8" that I find listed everywhere.

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by DaveTM

I just checked the alignment. Front tires center to center are 42.5" and the back of the front tire is 43.0".

Also, when I sit over enough to see what the passenger tire is doing when I hit the brakes hard, the passenger tire "pulls" right hard.

I'm thinking with that bolt that came loose, I now need to re-adjust the alignment (tie rod end) so the alignment difference between front and back of the tire is the 1/8" that I find listed everywhere.

If 1/8" is the correct toe-in for stock height (18" tall) tires, to maintain the same angle of the offset, wouldn't it have to be greater for taller tires?


For example, a MOA (Minute of Angle = 1/60th of 1°) is 1.05" at 100Yds and 2.10" at 200Yds.

[Reddawg454]

Ooops I should have read more closely. A pull to the right would possibly be a restricted LEFT brake hose. My bad.

[DaveTM]

I'm a bot perplexed on this issue. It's the "suddenness" of the occurrence.

Could be just the fact that the one lower A frame bolt came loose causing the right tire to go wonky. And I just tightened it back up with no regard to the toe in\out. And then because I was "down there" looking at all of it I felt the tie rod end was too loose, so I pulled the cotter pin and tightened it up via an electric impact driver.

Can't get back to it until tomorrow, but I figure it out.

I did check the brake lines back to the master cylinder and did not see\feel\find any kinks in the lines. Once I have it up on jack stands I'll give it another look.

[crash12888]

If you have lost fluid gradually over time you might not have noticed it but if you slowly saturate one side of the brake system it will act as though the other is "grabbing" or locking when in reality it is the other side slipping.
Remove both sets of pads and brake clean them all to start or you might have to go ahead and replace them as a set.
Ten years is long enough to maybe warrant a set of caliper kits or new calipers to bring it up to good for the next ten?

[DaveTM]

Well......here are the facts:

1--The lower A fram bolts of the Jakes LT were loose on both driver and passenger sides of the cart. I've since tightened them.

2--I've tightened via a Dewalt 1/4" drive impact driver the driver & passenger side outer tie rod ends. They had some play. They still have some play where the taper portion goes into the King pin arm. I'm suspecting this is the issue.

3--I pulled apart the driver side disc caliper and examined it for any anomalies. I found none. When the brakes are applied the drivers side "locks up" just as solid as the passenger side. I've checked both disc for any sign of oil(s) and the drivers side disc pads (since I had that side apart) and there is no sign of any oils on the disc or pads. (Rubbed the pads hard to see if I could get any oil residue on my thumb. No oil)

4-- The refill of the small Jakes master fluid reservoir is still "full"...no sign of a leak anywhere.

5--Finding replacement pads for Jakes disc brakes right now is impossible.

6--When I "jam" on the brakes the passenger side front wheel for sure pulls\toes\goes to the right. Drivers side want's to follow....but doesn't seem to contribute to the pull.

7--Now that everything is as tight as I can make it, with the play that is remaining in the outer tie rod ends just driving the cart it wants to steer right....and if I let go of the steering at a moderate speed, the cart will turn to the right. (Again, I now suspect tie rod ends)

Ok. Lemme yap about tie rod ends for a second. The "slop" or "play" in the tie rod ends is coming from (what appears to me) to be the junction where the cone shape of the tie rod end joins with the king pin arm.

Is it possible that the hole where the cone shape goes into is or has become oblong and\or out of shape? If so.....is the only "correction" a new king pin housing and arm?

[DaveTM]

Well.....mystery solved.

When I had my nephew install the Jakes LT front end I figured he had some general automotive knowledge since he just came outta auto mechanics school.

Yeah....well....about a year ago my steering was very loose. So, I tracked that down to when he installed the tie rod ends, the cotter pin hole was too far down to keep the rod bolt in place. At that time I drilled holes higher so the bolt would not come loose. Problem solved....or so I thought.

Fast forward to today and I discovered the tie rod ends (tapered part) still have play...or perhaps more play than before. So, after looking I found (see pic) where the tie rod end even with the bolt wrenched all the way down, did not have enough thread's to allow full tightening.



Soooo.....I "Bubba" fixed this issue using washers (see pic below) and now the steering is tighter than a tick on a dog. And, the steering has never felt better\smoother. (Yeah...no wonder)



So, knowing I'm no "front end expert" and never having to mess with tie rod ends like this, I figured I show my "limited knowledge" (or...really zero knowledge) on how a tie rod end should fit and what to do if you have these kind of issues.

Likely most of you knowledgable guys figured this "stuff" was already a given in the knowledge department.....but now I know!! And I post this for any amateur like myself who needs descriptions and photos to understand the basic knowledge.

Now, after tightening up all this.....I have to "undo" and align the passenger side tire as it's pointing out when the drivers side is straight. So...it still pulls when I hit the brakes, but it now drives straight when I let go of the steering. I'll button it down this week.