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Old 01-11-2014, 08:51 PM   #21
whizzo
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

I think the thing we have to understand is that golf carts ( and lots of other electric machines) are commercially sold are cheap, crude items and most certainly not at the bleeding edge of technology.

The lead acid battery technology is commonly and cheaply available, easily understood, easy to work with and will remain the dominant source of supply for golf carts for some time.

The other battery technologies simply are not as easily accessable to most people partricularly at a good price and in a form usefull to us......YET.

If we look at most of the commercially available electric vehicles....they are not commercially viable and are more expensive novelties than practical items.

Take the Prius for example, it may be the repository of a lot of ground breaking technology, but there are conventional motor vehicles that produce better fuel economy, softer environmental foot print, lower over all cost of ownership and are entirely more practical.

But technology moves on.
Only a few years ago, when a 2 foot by 4 foot solar panel output about 6 watts, people said solar would never be a viable source of electricity except in very remote areas.

But we have the situation where it is almost viable to go off grid with solar in a large city.

If these new battery technologies are to become viable..some one has to fiddle with them.
So lets see it done and hear about it.

Truth is golf carts are one of the few electric vehicles that are actually viable and have been for some time....even with the crude systems.

cheers
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:10 AM   #22
sportcoupe
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

Quote:
Originally Posted by whizzo View Post
Take the Prius for example, it may be the repository of a lot of ground breaking technology, but there are conventional motor vehicles that produce better fuel economy, softer environmental foot print, lower over all cost of ownership and are entirely more practical.

I own a 2007 Prius. It seats 4 adults making it practicable and I get 49-52 mpg on my daily work commute. Name one conventional gasoline, non-hybrid car that beats that.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:50 AM   #23
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

The Prius is not an Electric Car. It would go less than 2 miles on the battery alone and it can't go above 35mph on the battery alone. It is very practical and it gains it's efficiency by using the battery as temporary storage. It reclaims energy during braking which is very good in city driving. It is a very good design for efficiency. I am not sure what the newer ones use for a battery but the original was not Lithium - I think it was NiMh.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

I am a fan of solar power too but you would not see a single solar panel on a house unless they were subsidized by the power companies. It is a very tough business and the panels are getting cheaper but many companies have folded after trying their hand at making solar panels.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:31 AM   #25
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

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Originally Posted by sportcoupe View Post
I own a 2007 Prius. It seats 4 adults making it practicable and I get 49-52 mpg on my daily work commute. Name one conventional gasoline, non-hybrid car that beats that.
Ok then tell me what the economy is running with 4 people aboard at 60MPH on the highway.

Hell the Honda Z that I had way back in the 80s used to get 68mpg on the highway at 60MPH.....but that is a little unfair.....it had a 356cc motor making 39BHP at 9000rpm...and a curb weight of around 1000 pounds....AND I had 3 full grown 6 foot pluss adults pluss me in it....once.
I used to get about 35MPG out of it arround town.....driving it like I stole it.....which was how you keep up with traffic.


In other than stop start traffic several of the small european hatches especially the diesels will spank the prius for fuel economy....especially on the highway.

AND ya dont have to take out a second mortgage to buy one.

Oh and what would the cost of ownership be over 20 years....I bet that takes a dive when you have to replace the batteries.

So...
Ford KA..average fuel consumption 49MPG
Fiat punto..average fuel consumption 51.5MPG

Just for a head to head same for same comparison

Toyota Auris 1.4 litre manual turbo diesel average fuel consumption 72MPG
Toyota Auris 1.8 litre petrol hybrid average fuel consumption 74.3 MPG
Toyota Auris 1.3 litre petrol manual average fuel consumption 52.3MPG


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Old 01-13-2014, 07:03 AM   #26
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

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Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere View Post
The Prius is not an Electric Car. It would go less than 2 miles on the battery alone and it can't go above 35mph on the battery alone. It is very practical and it gains it's efficiency by using the battery as temporary storage. It reclaims energy during braking which is very good in city driving. It is a very good design for efficiency. I am not sure what the newer ones use for a battery but the original was not Lithium - I think it was NiMh.
I'm not arguing the prius is not efficient......but at what cost.

As I said, ground breaking technology.....but far from the environmentally friendly device that it is touted to be.

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Old 01-13-2014, 07:16 AM   #27
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

Whizzo,

Forgot you are Down Under. I realized that after you named cars we americans never heard of.

I never ride highway with 4 adults, only full car for lunch trips with coworkers. Prius battery pack can be had for under $1000 now here in the usa and it usually lasts between 120k-220k miles. It can be replaced in 3 hours easily.

Now back on topic. Anyone ever tried these drop-in lithium batteries? Seems they are better suited then fabricating individual cells and making a BMS for the average golf user.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/EVGOLFCART.php

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Old 01-13-2014, 05:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

Sportcoupe, those look sweet, but at over $5000 for a set of the 100AH (with charger), I don't see it happening here any time soon! Speaking of chargers, if you zoom up on the pic of the charger, it is a DualPro, meaning it will automatically sense (& charge) either Wet/AGM or Gel.....it doesn't show Lithium anywhere on the charger! Wonder how they're getting away with charging Lithium with this charger?
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Old 01-14-2014, 08:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

We are just starting to see some of the recent lithium compound batteries being offered in camper trailers and caravans down here.

Those that have then rave about them...but they also seem to be happy to pay twice or three times the cost of lead acid.

Seems they can be charged off more or less standard simple lead acid chargers, but it is considered wise to install some sort of under/over voltage protection.
Those selling the batteries supply a stand alone under/over voltage module.

These appliations are arround the 200 to 400AH 12 and 24 volt applications.

Not sure if the batteries used would be suitable for traction applications.

Just to give some idea of relativity, the going price for a set of 6 x T105 Trojans is around $1250, standard unleaded fuel is arround $1.60 a litre..that is around $7.00 a gallon.....and our dollar is not too far from parity at the moment.

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Old 01-15-2014, 09:23 AM   #30
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Default Re: Lead acid battery conversion to lipo

Quote:
Nissan leaf car which is a 144 volt sys.
Actually, the Leaf's battery pack is about 390 volts.

I've had mine for 3 weeks now and love it, even though my other car is a VW Passat TDI (Diesel) that gets 45 mpg. With our $.15/KWHR power cost, the Leaf runs for less than half the cost of the VW. And, I really love driving it.

IIRC, Lithium batteries are something like 4 times the power density of FLAs. This isn't really that important for a golf cart, as you can get "good enough" range with FLAs, which are cheap (!?) to buy and are relatively rugged. But, it would require about 2500# of FLAs in the Leaf to give you equivalent power/range as now. Which would require even more batteries to carry the excess weight.

At the moment, an electric car doesn't make economic sense, but it's getting closer and closer. One should denigrate the concept just because it's not quite "there" yet and/or because it wouldn't work for you. A friend is convinced that electric cars will never be viable because they won't work for HIM. However, as a second car, the Leaf works great for me.
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