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Old 01-06-2020, 09:54 AM   #11
mtollin
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

I'm looking at these vs Allied. Comparisons between the 2 and where the Roypow can be purchased would be appreciated. Cart is 2008 CC DS 48v. Used mainly for 1 round of golf in Mtns of NC. Currently US Battery S8VGC (170 amp 8v) which get me easily through 18 holes (when new, now 4 years old barely get home)

Thanks from a newbie who needs "drop ins"
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:20 PM   #12
fstop
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkerle View Post
You'll easily check all those boxes with that setup. After a little tuning we were able to get it to pop a 6in wheelie on 23in tires.

AC kits dont provide the low end torque that a DC motor does but they have great mid range torque. Pulling hills and such wont be an issue.

It takes a while to get those packs in. The one he is running took 4 or 5 weeks to get.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
I'm a little confused that you can pop a wheelie with 23in tires, with an AC motor kit which as indicated doesn't have a ton of low end torque, and yet NOT trip the discharge over-current limit switch in the pack, which as I read all this is potentially the weak(est) link in this battery pack.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like unless you have some hills with some decent grade, or heavy people, or a trailer you're pulling, or huge tires, or a crazy high draw DC motor / Controller - that you might not trigger the current over-limit cut off?

I've got the 5KW Navitas and 23" tires, but I also need practical range most of the time, so wheelies and 35mph is pretty much out in that scenario anyway. I just wonder if this battery might be a good "real world" choice -vs- building a leaf pack (which I've already started getting a few parts to do...)

Apparently the Leaf pack's advantage (14 module) would be discharge current potential - maybe the only advantage?

Seems like most Leaf modules available are used / re-claimed or whatever, and they seem to specify 70% or so of "capacity".

I'm not sure if this is # of cycles or AH of a fully charged pack, but if it is AH of a charged pack, and 14 new Leaf modules are in theory 120ah, then 70% of that is only 84AH of storage capacity. The smaller RoyPow is listed as 105AH, and appears to be lighter than 14 Leaf modules (95lbs -vs- around 115lbs I think).

A 5 year warranty (if it is actionable by the buyer in a year or two - who knows...) is certainly something to consider as well.

The cost of a DIY Leaf with active BMS and all accompanying parts could possibly get north of 1,800 (which as I understand it is the cost, minus installation of the RoyPow 105Ah).
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:28 AM   #13
fstop
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

Can't seem to edit my post but the up to or north of $1,800 figure I'm stating for a 14 Leaf DIY pack assumes around $300 in there for a new / fast charger - not one of the $100 ones which will work but might be slower, may not be adjustable (easily) for "full" voltage level etc....

So if the RoyPow needs a new charger also (would assume so...) that would bring the price of the Leaf DIY down a bit in comparison.

The other thing I'm unclear on (like there is only one other thing I'm unclear on ...) is max. discharge of the Leaf modules. I realize people here are using them under pretty heavy discharge conditions, and they are working and apparently not exploding, but it seems their rating isn't all that high (if I'm reading the specs right?). I wonder though what high discharge rates are doing to the life or longer term stability of the Leaf modules?

The RoyPow apparently has a simple circuit breaker or something (self resetting I guess) that disconnects at some load point, and then presumably reconnects when the condition is not present. Clearly they have set that level for cell protection and to limit future warranty exposure. As the Leaf modules don't have any such protection (and to my knowledge nobody is building anything in other than 400amp fuses in the event of a short) I just wonder if the Leaf modules SHOULD be used with the higher discharge rates (even though they'll do it)?

I know very little regarding lithium but it's very interesting to be at this point and getting away from the 100 year old lead-acid battery tech.

If anybody can clarify what constitutes acceptable / safe current draw on a 14 module Leaf pack I'd be appreciative for the info.
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Old 01-10-2020, 09:39 AM   #14
Jkerle
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

I think what has you confused is sustained discharge rates versus short bursts. A 400-800amp surge for 2 milliseconds isn't going to hurt anything. The roypow has proven to put out 400amps in quick millisecond bursts without tripping the built in breaker. This is all the more that's needed to pop wheelies and such. The motor once turning would be very hard pressed to draw more than 250amps. A sustained discharge rate at or over 250amps will definitely trip it. A golfcart under most circumstances will not be able to sustain an amp draw north of 300amps. It's just not possible with the motor sizes we use. With an A2 speed motor on 27in tires at wide open throttle on level ground I was able to get a sustained draw of 280 amps. That's a bad combination of motor and tire size and if I was to hold that power output long enough the motor would melt down.

I believe the roypow cost at 1800 includes a charger. Not sure of its specs tho.

In my opinion and experience the roypow setup will provide just as good of performance as a leaf pack if its configured correctly. As far longevity idk that anyone can answer that yet. Only time will tell.

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Old 01-10-2020, 10:59 AM   #15
bronsonj
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

"The other thing I'm unclear on is max. discharge of the Leaf modules."

I don't know of any lithium cells available that cannot handle short discharge bursts at 10C. My Chevy Volt pack is 94Ah. So I should be able to handle a short burst of 940 amps *from the battery*. Truth be told that the other components in my cart can't handle or won't pass 940 amps. The cells themselves are not the limiting factor.

The other components, cable size, BMS, safety fuses/breakers, etc are what determines the max burst discharge rates. Someone else on the forum was looking at pre-built lithium battery pack to drop in their cart but it stated a 120 amp max discharge burst rate with 80amp continuous. The pack should be fine at higher draws so the manufacturer of that pack used a underpowered BMS.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:11 AM   #16
fstop
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkerle View Post
I think what has you confused is sustained discharge rates versus short bursts. A 400-800amp surge for 2 milliseconds isn't going to hurt anything. The roypow has proven to put out 400amps in quick millisecond bursts without tripping the built in breaker. This is all the more that's needed to pop wheelies and such. The motor once turning would be very hard pressed to draw more than 250amps. A sustained discharge rate at or over 250amps will definitely trip it. A golfcart under most circumstances will not be able to sustain an amp draw north of 300amps. It's just not possible with the motor sizes we use. With an A2 speed motor on 27in tires at wide open throttle on level ground I was able to get a sustained draw of 280 amps. That's a bad combination of motor and tire size and if I was to hold that power output long enough the motor would melt down.

I believe the roypow cost at 1800 includes a charger. Not sure of its specs tho.

In my opinion and experience the roypow setup will provide just as good of performance as a leaf pack if its configured correctly. As far longevity idk that anyone can answer that yet. Only time will tell.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Really appreciate the feedback - as far as I know you are the only one on the forum with direct experience with this pack, and more precisely - combined with a Navitas 5KW AC conversion. Hope you don't mind but I'd like to PM you a question or two, as I have the opportunity to put my hands on one of these packs next week.

Not sure I'll be able to buy, try and return if I don't like something about it (Can probably negotiate something fair with the dealer though - he's a nice guy). He's only put them in stock carts, and all has been good in his experience but the owner's of those carts are looking for no maintenance and less rigid charging requirements and a little extra range - not really anything to do with acceleration or speeds.

You are correct - the charger is included for the $1,795 kit cost (also all mounting and electrical parts needed to convert). Dealer says 3 hour max charge time, but haven't looked it up to see what they are using.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:18 AM   #17
davidgolfer
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtollin View Post
I'm looking at these vs Allied. Comparisons between the 2 and where the Roypow can be purchased would be appreciated. Cart is 2008 CC DS 48v. Used mainly for 1 round of golf in Mtns of NC. Currently US Battery S8VGC (170 amp 8v) which get me easily through 18 holes (when new, now 4 years old barely get home)

Thanks from a newbie who needs "drop ins"
I have been doing the same research. Decided to go with the Roypow but have not received it yet. Hopefully some time next week
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:22 AM   #18
Jkerle
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fstop View Post
Really appreciate the feedback - as far as I know you are the only one on the forum with direct experience with this pack, and more precisely - combined with a Navitas 5KW AC conversion. Hope you don't mind but I'd like to PM you a question or two, as I have the opportunity to put my hands on one of these packs next week.



Not sure I'll be able to buy, try and return if I don't like something about it (Can probably negotiate something fair with the dealer though - he's a nice guy). He's only put them in stock carts, and all has been good in his experience but the owner's of those carts are looking for no maintenance and less rigid charging requirements and a little extra range - not really anything to do with acceleration or speeds.



You are correct - the charger is included for the $1,795 kit cost (also all mounting and electrical parts needed to convert). Dealer says 3 hour max charge time, but haven't looked it up to see what they are using.
Sure I'll be on the look out for you messages.



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Old 01-10-2020, 03:35 PM   #19
mtollin
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

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Originally Posted by davidgolfer View Post
I have been doing the same research. Decided to go with the Roypow but have not received it yet. Hopefully some time next week
Who did you buy it from? Are shipping to you? Cant find many dealers.
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Old 01-10-2020, 05:46 PM   #20
davidgolfer
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Default Re: Anyone tried RoyPow lithium kit yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtollin View Post
Who did you buy it from? Are shipping to you? Cant find many dealers.
They haven't shipped it yet but they are supposed to ship it to me. I have been surprised at how hard it is to get someone to sell me one of these.
After messaging several dealers asking for prices and getting little or no response I finally just called Roypow they referred me to a dealer. If they send it to me I will message you details.
Think someone on this site is a dealer also but he never would reply with shipping costs.
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