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Old 03-19-2009, 11:21 AM   #21
gornoman
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougmcp View Post
Regardless of what you do or hook up to a circuit you can only get so much.
Using a simplified version of ohm's law: E=IxR I-Power(voltage) X R-Current(amperage) = E-Energy(watts)
Something isn't right here, or maybe it's me.

Ohm's law applies to electrical circuits; it states that the current through a conductor between two points is directly proportional to the potential difference or voltage across the two points, and inversely proportional to the resistance between them.
The mathematical equation that describes this relationship is:

I = V/R

where I is the current in amperes, V is the potential difference in volts,and R is a circuit parameter called the resistance (measured in ohms, also equivalent to volts per ampere).
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

It's not you, it's me. Sorry for the confusion, I was mistaken when I termed it Ohm's Law and it really should have been Watt's Law.
Power dissipation can be determined by Watt's Law, which states:

P = I x E

P = Power (Watts DC)
I = Current (Amps DC)
E = Voltage (Volts DC)

What I said above, change E=IxR to P=IxE and all will be the same as I originally stated:

A 20 amp circuit on 120v will give you 120v(E)x20a(I)=2400w(P)
If you are charging a 50v battery bank you only have a max of 2400w/50v=48amp

A 20 amp circuit on 220v will give you 220v(E)x20a(I)=4400w(P)
If you are charging a 50v battery bank you only have a max of 4400w/50v=88amp
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:23 PM   #23
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

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Using a simplified version of ohm's law: E=IxR I-Power(voltage) X R-Current(amperage) = E-Energy(watts)

.
Doug your theory is correct, but applicatiojn is not real. For continious duty service, which a battery charger is, the max you can run is 80% on the AC side or 16 amps or 1920 watts.

What the OP does not understand is Ohm's Law and that a welder no mattery what size maximum open circuit voltage is 40 VOLTS. OSHA and UL forbid any higher. In addition that is open circuit voltage with NO CURRENT and as soon as you draw current the voltage folds back, way back to a few volts. There is no way on GOD's green earth a welder will work.

Using a 120 VAC dedicated circuit charging at 132 volts the maximum theorhetical charge current you can have is 1920 watts/132 volts x 90% Effeciency factor = 13-AMPS

Sorry Doug but 13 AMPS is the absolutely best you can do using a 120 VAC 20-amp circuit to charge a 132 volt battery. You cannot violate the Law of Physics.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

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I termed it Ohm's Law and it really should have been Watt's Law.
No such thing as Watts Law, it is Ohm's Law.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

All of this discussion is still very confusing I wonder why we an expert hasn't jump in here and explain just how this can be done? I have 2 welders, a 175amp mig and a 240a/220v arch. Which one of these can I charge my batteries with?
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

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All of this discussion is still very confusing I wonder why we an expert hasn't jump in here and explain just how this can be done? I have 2 welders, a 175amp mig and a 240a/220v arch. Which one of these can I charge my batteries with?
Good question scotty. There used to be a guy around here who could handle questions like this. It's almost as if he's invisible now?
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

Okay, thanks to Roady insisting that I have to have voltage and amperage
to charge my batteries. I went back to Odyessy they agree. But failed to tell me, oops. Now this is what I need. 135 volts of DC output, 0 to 100 amp range, 110 or 220 I don"t know? Am I looking for anything else? Will I be able to find all of this in one welder? Thanks for your time.
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

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Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
All of this discussion is still very confusing I wonder why we an expert hasn't jump in here and explain just how this can be done? I have 2 welders, a 175amp mig and a 240a/220v arch. Which one of these can I charge my batteries with?
What are the numbers on the UL rating plate for each welder. Should be a plate somewhere that says voltage, amperage, cycles etc on it. It should be pretty easy to figure out once those numbers are known. One of the numbers you're specifically looking for are amperage at 100% duty cycle.
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

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Originally Posted by dougmcp View Post
What are the numbers on the UL rating plate for each welder. Should be a plate somewhere that says voltage, amperage, cycles etc on it. It should be pretty easy to figure out once those numbers are known. One of the numbers you're specifically looking for are amperage at 100% duty cycle.
The name plate will only tell you the AC input side power requirements. OSHA and UL limit the output of a welder to be 40 volts MAX so you cannot electrocute yourself. Once you draw current the voltage FOLDS BACK. and only the cureent is limited. Voltag eis unknown but less than 40 volts. DUH!
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Charging Extreme DC

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Originally Posted by GarageBuilt View Post
I went back to Odyessy they agree. But failed to tell me, oops. Now this is what I need. 135 volts of DC output, 0 to 100 amp range, 110 or 220 I don"t know? Am I looking for anything else? Will I be able to find all of this in one welder? Thanks for your time.
NO WELDER WILL DO IT. OK?

To answer your question if you use a 120 VAC 20-amp dedicated circuit, the highest charge current you can get at 135 volts DC is:

Charge current = [(120 VAC x 20 amps x 80% duty cycle) / 135 volts] x 90% efficiency factor = 13 AMPS. Same answer as last time you asked.

To figure out other combinations use the same formula. For example lets say you have a NEMA 7-30 receptacle, the same kind you would use for a electric dryer is 240 volts @ 30 amps, then:

[(240 VAC x 30 amps x 80% duty cycle) / 135 volts DC] x 90% efficiency factor = 48 AMPS

[ (VAC x Amps x .8 ) / DC Volts ] x .9 = Maximum charge current at DC Volts.

You will have to find a battery charger made for your application. There is no way around it. Cough up the bucks!
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