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Old 02-23-2021, 10:38 AM   #21
geoffarias
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Ive been doing this exact thing each time as Im still conditioning/formatting the batteries.

Trojan T875

Batteries measured 8.7V each x 6 batteries
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Old 03-02-2021, 07:08 PM   #22
ATrain
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATrain View Post
For those with battery issues - list your battery brand/model, individual battery voltage, and # of batteries in your cart.

My hunch is still a charger software issue.



If anyone missed the picture before, that's how they program the charger...they click that dropdown and select the battery configuration. It appears SUPER easy to accidentally choose the wrong battery config.

I think those different battery profiles tell the charger how much to charge the pack. So if you have Trojan T-105's, your (theoretical) fully charged float voltage should be 52.8v, but if you have T-875's your total should be 54v!

So if you have six 8v T-875's, but your charger is mistakenly programmed for the T-105's, then the charger may only charge up to 52.8v instead of the full 54v.

My theory may be correct for some of you, and for others, you may have a completely different issue.

My theory can be tested though with a multimeter and a fully charged (green light) cart. I just looked up the manufacturer battery data sheets and verified my cart (8x6v T105's) matches that float amount and the individual batteries measured 6.58v (target 6.6v).
I did some more research and I think my theory is incorrect. I've found some info out though.

My cart has a ICON HM4820L branded charger, which I believe is actually a rebranded Delta-Q QuiQ 1500 Charger.

The Delta-Q charger takes a battery algorithm. Looking at the T-105 and T-875, they both use algorithm 1, so I'm not sure why ICON has different charging profiles, unless they've customized the algorithm.

I also misunderstood the float voltage, as that's just what it will be while on the charger. After fully charging the cart, either let it sit 6 hours or move it 20 ft and let it sit an hour to clear the surface charge. After that, with a multimeter it should measure just under 51v.

Anyone else have the same charger on their carts and/or know anything more about them?
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:50 AM   #23
geoffarias
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

This is my exact findings. Cart only measures 50.94-50.96V when I disconnect and let it sit to a full charge (as it supposed to as a 48V pack).

This is from a source @ Icon that is on one of the Facebook groups Im on. He posted this in late January so hoping for a solution soon. It doesn't worry me but wife isn't as electrically savvy and she panics when she sees its down to 85% and shes only driven it a mile from home:

Tech update: After much in-house testing, and additional testing at several of our dealers, we believe we have resolved the issue of some charge meters not resetting to 100% after a full charge cycle. It seems what is happening is that the state of charge meter needs to cross the 51 volt threshold in order to reset to 100%, but the current Trojan algorithm is only charging to within .5 of that number. So to use a gas tank analogy, your tank is filling up to 99%, but not triggering the gauge to read "full". You still have 99% of your available range after charging, but the meter just doesn't know it. So they are writing a new charging algorithm for us, which we should have relatively soon. In the meantime, your dealers can substitute a US battery algorithm in its place, or wait for the updated Trojan algorithm. We apologize for the inconvenience, but we wanted to make sure of what actually was happening. We were initially a bit puzzled because exchanging meters worked in the beginning for some carts, but not others. So we needed to confirm if it was a meter issue, a battery issue, a charger issue, or an algorithm / software issue, or some combination of some or all of them. And also credit goes to a few folks here who were right on the money with their thoughts about what the issue was. This group is awesome!
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:03 PM   #24
ATrain
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffarias View Post
This is my exact findings. Cart only measures 50.94-50.96V when I disconnect and let it sit to a full charge (as it supposed to as a 48V pack).

This is from a source @ Icon that is on one of the Facebook groups Im on. He posted this in late January so hoping for a solution soon. It doesn't worry me but wife isn't as electrically savvy and she panics when she sees its down to 85% and shes only driven it a mile from home:

Tech update: After much in-house testing, and additional testing at several of our dealers, we believe we have resolved the issue of some charge meters not resetting to 100% after a full charge cycle. It seems what is happening is that the state of charge meter needs to cross the 51 volt threshold in order to reset to 100%, but the current Trojan algorithm is only charging to within .5 of that number. So to use a gas tank analogy, your tank is filling up to 99%, but not triggering the gauge to read "full". You still have 99% of your available range after charging, but the meter just doesn't know it. So they are writing a new charging algorithm for us, which we should have relatively soon. In the meantime, your dealers can substitute a US battery algorithm in its place, or wait for the updated Trojan algorithm. We apologize for the inconvenience, but we wanted to make sure of what actually was happening. We were initially a bit puzzled because exchanging meters worked in the beginning for some carts, but not others. So we needed to confirm if it was a meter issue, a battery issue, a charger issue, or an algorithm / software issue, or some combination of some or all of them. And also credit goes to a few folks here who were right on the money with their thoughts about what the issue was. This group is awesome!
Can you link to the group?
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:07 PM   #25
geoffarias
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Update just now from Terry @ Icon

Ok, after many many aggravating days and nights (WAY too many), and seemingly endless testing, re-testing, and re-testing again, we finally have the answers, and solutions, to the incorrect state of charge meter issues. Most of the information I previously shared was correct, and some needs updating. So here is the situation.......
First of all, its important to note that this charge meter issue in NO WAY affects the operation of anyone's cart. It is an annoyance, absolutely, but it does not affect your battery range. The issue was caused by essentially a .2 - .3 volt variable in the meter readings. Also, the length of time since the charging cycle was completed also factored in. So without boring everyone to tears with the tech data, the cliff notes version is that in many cases the cart sat long enough after the charging cycle was complete, that the resting voltage dropped a hair below the 51V threshold required to reset the meter to 100%. Tech people know that charger output is actually in the neighborhood of 60 volts during the charging cycle, but once charging is complete that number drops quickly until the "resting voltage" number is reached. And if that number is below 51 volts when the key is turned on, the meter will not reset to 100%. If the key was turned on PRIOR to the voltage dropping below 51v, then the 100% reset would take place. That is why it was an intermittent problem, because sometimes people turned the key on before the drop, but other times maybe the cart sat 12, 14 hours or whatever before they used it.
So we are now in the process of reprogramming enough meters to make sure that everyone having this issue can have it resolved. Every customer can decide for themselves if they prefer to have us send a corrected meter directly to them and they will install it themselves (takes all of 30 seconds, if that), or if they prefer to take their cart to a dealer to have it done. That choice is up to the customer. Speedometer clusters for non-lifted carts are in stock and available now, and lifted cart clusters should be ready by Monday. Anyone reading this email that needs a replacement cluster sent to them please email me at trekas@iconev.com. Please put "cluster" in the subject line, and be sure to include your name, address, phone number, the type of cart (i40L, etc), and the chassis LTA number from the data plate on the floor near the accelerator pedal.
Thank you, and we apologize for all the inconvenience and annoyance this issue brought. Hopefully this will be the end of it 🙂

Link to group https://www.facebook.com/groups/283409022761803/
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Old 03-04-2021, 12:19 PM   #26
ATrain
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffarias View Post
Update just now from Terry @ Icon

Ok, after many many aggravating days and nights (WAY too many), and seemingly endless testing, re-testing, and re-testing again, we finally have the answers, and solutions, to the incorrect state of charge meter issues. Most of the information I previously shared was correct, and some needs updating. So here is the situation.......
First of all, its important to note that this charge meter issue in NO WAY affects the operation of anyone's cart. It is an annoyance, absolutely, but it does not affect your battery range. The issue was caused by essentially a .2 - .3 volt variable in the meter readings. Also, the length of time since the charging cycle was completed also factored in. So without boring everyone to tears with the tech data, the cliff notes version is that in many cases the cart sat long enough after the charging cycle was complete, that the resting voltage dropped a hair below the 51V threshold required to reset the meter to 100%. Tech people know that charger output is actually in the neighborhood of 60 volts during the charging cycle, but once charging is complete that number drops quickly until the "resting voltage" number is reached. And if that number is below 51 volts when the key is turned on, the meter will not reset to 100%. If the key was turned on PRIOR to the voltage dropping below 51v, then the 100% reset would take place. That is why it was an intermittent problem, because sometimes people turned the key on before the drop, but other times maybe the cart sat 12, 14 hours or whatever before they used it.
So we are now in the process of reprogramming enough meters to make sure that everyone having this issue can have it resolved. Every customer can decide for themselves if they prefer to have us send a corrected meter directly to them and they will install it themselves (takes all of 30 seconds, if that), or if they prefer to take their cart to a dealer to have it done. That choice is up to the customer. Speedometer clusters for non-lifted carts are in stock and available now, and lifted cart clusters should be ready by Monday. Anyone reading this email that needs a replacement cluster sent to them please email me at trekas@iconev.com. Please put "cluster" in the subject line, and be sure to include your name, address, phone number, the type of cart (i40L, etc), and the chassis LTA number from the data plate on the floor near the accelerator pedal.
Thank you, and we apologize for all the inconvenience and annoyance this issue brought. Hopefully this will be the end of it 🙂

Link to group https://www.facebook.com/groups/283409022761803/
That's great to hear they're doing that...but kind of absurd it took them this long to figure it out. I figured that voltage drop out after a couple hours after looking at the battery datasheets!

T-105: https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/da...ata_Sheets.pdf

T875: https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/da...ata_Sheets.pdf

In the lower right corner on pg1 of each datasheet it says 100% state of charge per-battery voltage. So T105 is 6.37*8 = 50.96 and T875 is 8.49*6 = 50.94.

That's what your cart should read when it's fully charged, EXCEPT that does not account for the surface charge on the battery plates.

I don't know how to best describe it, but when you fully charge your batteries and unplug the charger...you can watch with a multimeter that it will drop from 53-54v (float charge) down to a resting voltage, but there are a little bit of electrons leftover on the surface that will cause your cart to read 51v+ resting.

You need to wait 6 hours for the surface charge to dissipate or just drive the cart like 20 feet and wait 1 hour and that should clear the surface charge (~per my convo with Trojan battery technical support).

So ICON basically was unaware that surface charge exists, saw the carts were reading 51v+ after a full charge...not realizing that they're truly more like 50.9v and they set their 100% threshold too high.
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Old 03-09-2021, 08:58 PM   #27
ffparadavis
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Join Date: Mar 2021
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

I just purchased my cart a week ago and noticed the same thing. i contacted Icon, they sent me a new dash module, and even reached out to have me swing by today to let them install it. so far so good with the new module.
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Old 03-10-2021, 03:29 PM   #28
thelandposse
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Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 64
Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

I received my new cluster yesterday. It took one minute to install....super easy. Now my cart has 0 miles/hours.

Icon also said to toss the old one into the garbage as they have no need for it.
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Old 03-14-2021, 03:02 PM   #29
mwar410
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Wow! Emailed the Terry@Icon link on Tuesday and received the new cluster Friday. Didn’t hear anything from them and was expecting to have to check up on my email, then FedEx drops the package off.
Now I’ll get some cart work done this week, new cluster, beeping turn signal flasher, adjust headlights.
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Old 03-15-2021, 04:25 PM   #30
ATrain
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Default Re: State of Charge % incorrect

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwar410 View Post
Wow! Emailed the Terry@Icon link on Tuesday and received the new cluster Friday. Didn’t hear anything from them and was expecting to have to check up on my email, then FedEx drops the package off.
Now I’ll get some cart work done this week, new cluster, beeping turn signal flasher, adjust headlights.
Regarding the beeping turn signal flasher...I started doing that but it can be annoying. You might consider replacing the mirrors with turn signal lights built in...I'm happy I went that route and it also gives more visibility to other drivers. Super easy install and I posted a how-to here:

https://www.buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=172103
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