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Old 09-20-2018, 11:16 AM   #101
DaveTM
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Bob Boyce made a previous post and stated that 8mm would work the best.

I just mic-ed mine and via a conversion chart, mine came with 6mm all thread. 6mm leaves a lot of slop.

When I look at a decimal to mm conversion chart, 8mm is equal to about 5/16" 'merican. That's probably more like it.

1/4" is equal to about 6.5mm.....again, sloppy but once you tighten 'em up your good.

Since I need longer all thread to mount the unit in my soon-to-be-made steel structure, I'll go with 5/16"
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:35 AM   #102
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

I would go with 5/16 if it fits - and it sounds like it should.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:39 AM   #103
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBHC View Post
Have any of you figured out the actual appropriate size allthread to use for the leaf batteries? The 1/4" is a little loose and I'm not completely comfortable with it. I'm sure I am overthinking it......
The threaded rods are not carrying any "vertical" loads, only compression (tension in the rods) loads to keep the modules together. As long as the rods are strong enough for the loads applied when tightening them together, the sloppiness does not matter. You DO NOT want to crank down on the rods so tight that you would risk exceeding the tensile strength of the rods as you will damage the cells first.
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:59 AM   #104
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

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Yes.....yes.....I know.....it's "overkill" on questions. But.....is this the correct way to install the diodes? AND.....what size diodes do I need? (Require) I know this is duck soup for you EE guys......for me..not so much!!

In your application, I don't think you need diodes. Diodes are used to prevent power from flowing in an undesired direction. You don't appear to have any of those possible pathways.

I also think there is an issue with power supplied to the coil of the relays. The coil side must have a source for + and -. Without that, there is no power flow to activate the coil and close the contacts.

I think your HV relay should be per the attached. Currently, you only have power to the coil if the charger is supplying voltage.

On the LV side, I don't know (on EZGO) if the key switch is a source of + power (or if it is a - switch), but you want to have the contacts in series with the key switch (after the coil power tap) so if the BMS triggers LV cutout it is the same as turning the key switch off. The coil side also needs a source for + and - to close the contacts. If that cold side provides a + source when the key is on, then that one looks good.

The coils for both relays are controlled by the BMS relay (breaking or making the ground, or -, path).
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:28 PM   #105
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBHC View Post
Have any of you figured out the actual appropriate size allthread to use for the leaf batteries? The 1/4" is a little loose and I'm not completely comfortable with it. I'm sure I am overthinking it......
I did, I took a module into Fastenal and they measured the hole sizes. 8mm was the largest that would fit. 1/4" is about 6.35mm so it's a bit loose. I bought four 1 meter lengths of stainless steel 8mm allthread, a box of 100 8mm stainless steel nuts, and a bag of 50 8mm stainless steel flat washers. I only needed 2 of the 1 meter threaded rods, cut in half, because I ended up not needing to use washers. The nuts fit over the flange tubes on each end, centered. I cut the threaded rod with a thin carbide wheel in a Dremel, scored it all the way around and snapped it in two. Then used the carbide wheel as a mini-grinder to clean up the cut ends.

Bob
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:05 PM   #106
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

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Originally Posted by ag4ever View Post
In your application, I don't think you need diodes. Diodes are used to prevent power from flowing in an undesired direction. You don't appear to have any of those possible pathways.

I also think there is an issue with power supplied to the coil of the relays. The coil side must have a source for + and -. Without that, there is no power flow to activate the coil and close the contacts.

I think your HV relay should be per the attached. Currently, you only have power to the coil if the charger is supplying voltage.

On the LV side, I don't know (on EZGO) if the key switch is a source of + power (or if it is a - switch), but you want to have the contacts in series with the key switch (after the coil power tap) so if the BMS triggers LV cutout it is the same as turning the key switch off. The coil side also needs a source for + and - to close the contacts. If that cold side provides a + source when the key is on, then that one looks good.

The coils for both relays are controlled by the BMS relay (breaking or making the ground, or -, path).
Let’s see:

I have + from Charger going into COM
You have + from Charger going into NO

I have + from Charger going into coil
You have + from Charger going into coil

I have - from ZEVA going into coil
You have - from ZEVA going into coil

So, if my "comparisons" are correct....the only difference between us is that....from the Charger, my set-up goes into the COM side first......and your set-up goes into the NO side first.

Now, I'm not going to argue with you, as I've googled the crap outta trying to find definitions for "NO" (this is Normally Open), and COM...which I can't find what "COM" means.

If I knew what COM meant, that would help. I believe that one "end" of the relay would be where a power source comes from.....(This should be "NO"?) and then where the power is going to...(This would be "COM"?)

And then there is my fundamental mis-understanding of what a diode is needed for.

And so.....I ask what may be obvious to the guy(s) who work with this stuff daily.

Edit: And if I understand that "NO" means Normally Open, then I think that means the circuit is normally open.....until power is put to the coil, then this closes the circuit and allows the current to flow.
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Old 09-20-2018, 04:32 PM   #107
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Ok, so if I'm understanding the little schematic thats on the side of this Relay, the connection that is the COM has a "sideways arrow" on it that indicates (apparently) the current flow?

If that is suppose to be the current flow, then I think my method of wiring is ok. As when I turn on the charger, the NO closes and the charging circuit is complete. If ZEVA detects an overcharge, it will cut off the negative current and the relay will then open.....and stop the flow of current to the batteries.

Am I right? Or is my thinking flawed.


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Old 09-20-2018, 05:09 PM   #108
ag4ever
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
Let’s see:

I have + from Charger going into COM
You have + from Charger going into NO

I have + from Charger going into coil
You have + from Charger going into coil

I have - from ZEVA going into coil
You have - from ZEVA going into coil

So, if my "comparisons" are correct....the only difference between us is that....from the Charger, my set-up goes into the COM side first......and your set-up goes into the NO side first.

Now, I'm not going to argue with you, as I've googled the crap outta trying to find definitions for "NO" (this is Normally Open), and COM...which I can't find what "COM" means.

If I knew what COM meant, that would help. I believe that one "end" of the relay would be where a power source comes from.....(This should be "NO"?) and then where the power is going to...(This would be "COM"?)

And then there is my fundamental mis-understanding of what a diode is needed for.

And so.....I ask what may be obvious to the guy(s) who work with this stuff daily.

Edit: And if I understand that "NO" means Normally Open, then I think that means the circuit is normally open.....until power is put to the coil, then this closes the circuit and allows the current to flow.
It is not the COM or NO points that really matter. It is the "coil" points. You have the positive side of the activation coil supplied from the charger, I have it supplied from the battery. The NO & COM changes were just a result of easier mapping. On your second post, the coil terminals are the two circles with the rectangle box between them. The way we are using these relays, each pair of terminals are agnostic, it does not matter which way they are wired. If were were using the NC and NO points, then the COM connection would matter.

The way a relay works is, power is applied to the coil that magnetically move the contact between the other two contacts. This is how they are 2 separate circuits with no "electrical" connection between them. NO is normally open to the COM with no power to the coil, NC is normally closed to the COM without power to the coil. Applying power to the coil reverses these two.

They way your original sketch showed them, it should work if the charger delivers voltage before seeing voltage from the battery. If it won't supply voltage to charge without sensing voltage from the battery, it won't trigger the relay to connect the battery to the charger. "chicken vs egg scenario"
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Old 09-20-2018, 05:46 PM   #109
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Ahhhhh......Thank you for your explanation. (Chicken\egg...makes sense)

So, it doesn't matter that there would be a constant positive charge to the coil, since the ZEVA "controls" the negative.....and if ZEVA senses an overcharge, it will cut off the negative current to the relay, thereby terminating current from the charger to the batteries.

Thank you for your patience and time providing me with an explanation. I really appreciate that. I like it when I have a schematic to follow.....but I like it more when I understand how it works!!

Dave
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:24 PM   #110
ag4ever
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post

So, it doesn't matter that there would be a constant positive charge to the coil, since the ZEVA "controls" the negative.....and if ZEVA senses an overcharge, it will cut off the negative current to the relay, thereby terminating current from the charger to the batteries.

Dave
Exactly!
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