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Old 09-07-2021, 05:09 PM   #41
wingmanchris
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPonLKN View Post
I think you found your problem. Timing is off, but it isn't because of the cam timing, its the firing timing from the Pulsar due to the broken flywheel. Replace the flywheel, I suspect you will be running fine. Did the flywheel come from CT like that, or was it off the old motor?
Flywheel came from CT Rebuilds already installed. So correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming the gap/notch in the flywheel passes the pulsar causing it to send a signal to the ignitor to power the coil and create spark. Since the gap/notch in the flywheel is enlarged because of the piece missing, it’s causing advanced or retarded ignition. I’m also assuming the pulsar is not supposed to be painted over.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:39 PM   #42
trig123
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingmanchris View Post
Flywheel came from CT Rebuilds already installed. So correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming the gap/notch in the flywheel passes the pulsar causing it to send a signal to the ignitor to power the coil and create spark. Since the gap/notch in the flywheel is enlarged because of the piece missing, it’s causing advanced or retarded ignition. I’m also assuming the pulsar is not supposed to be painted over.
You are correct on the flywheel not being able to do its job with it being broke. I don't think after all these years of working on these engines I have ever seen one broke like this.

Anyway can you maybe contact the seller and have him make it right for you ?
The flywheel will probably fix you problem as far as it running but you also have low compression . You said they told you they ran it ???

Yes you also need that spring tensioner. I sure wouldn't put an engine up without one.

Many people don't know but there is a rubber plug in the timing cover. You can remove it after so many hours and loosen the bolt then turn engine over by hand a few rounds and tighten bolt back and put plug back in cover.

These belts will stretch over time and doing this lets the spring do its job.
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Old 09-07-2021, 07:00 PM   #43
BlackKnight755
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

Should all of that crud be on the timing gears and should the inside be cleaner in a fresh rebuild? I have no idea, hence the question. I have rebuilt car and truck engines and would not go back together with them looking like that but I don't know about a cart engine. Alos I'm thinking that they didn't actually run the engine, maybe just spun it over and made sure that it was free and didn't have parts rattling around in the crankcase. Like I said, I have no idea... just asking a question.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:06 PM   #44
JPonLKN
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingmanchris View Post
Flywheel came from CT Rebuilds already installed. So correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m assuming the gap/notch in the flywheel passes the pulsar causing it to send a signal to the ignitor to power the coil and create spark. Since the gap/notch in the flywheel is enlarged because of the piece missing, it’s causing advanced or retarded ignition. I’m also assuming the pulsar is not supposed to be painted over.
I have seen several rebuilt engines with the pulsar painted...never been an issue. I have had one crudded up on the contact side that needed cleaning before it would create a spark. I can't imagine that large gap isn't creating this issue. Seems like a timing issue and this certainly would cause one.

As for the belt debris in the engine compartment. I can't imagine they would clean and paint the engine and not clean those tins, but then again, that flywheel shouldn't be broken either from a builder. I bet someone took a prybar to it to get the flywheel off and chipped it. Maybe taken apart by the shop kid, or new guy.
Depending on how loose that bolt on the tensioner is, and if the pulley is tight or loose, you could be getting belt debris just from the test running it. Hard to tell. I would get a spring on there. What does the belt look like up close? Any frays, or damage? Is it a new belt?

Not looking good for this builder though. Friday afternoon or Monday morning build is what it looks like.
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Old 09-08-2021, 01:30 AM   #45
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

That has got to be the worst supposedly rebuilt engine I have ever seen. Personally I would send it straight back for a replacement. I assume this is not your original core? that could be an issue. That engine was never bench tested before sending out and looking at those images, it was never rebuilt either hence the low compression.

EDIT.

Just gone back over the thread and looked at a few things.

The date on the engine is 08/27 and the date of your first post is 08/31. Assuming shipping time and installation time and the date on the engine is supposedly the rebuild date, something is not right. If the engine date is the shipping date, it is still a bit tight in my mind. Also the missing belt tensioner spring flags up red to me. What looks like an oil seep at the crank seal tends to suggest the engine was not actually stripped down and checked. If so it should have all new seals and gaskets installed. It would be interesting to strip the engine further to inspect the details that any competent engine re builder could see what has been done. Looking at the state of the valve timing cover and backing plate, along with the cam sprocket, oil filter etc and the fact that a lot of bolts that are removed for a rebuild look like they have never seen a wrench or socket since first build all suggest to me that this was either a quick turnaround or maybe a genuine mistake such as the wrong engine being sent out.

I would suggest maybe another call to CT rebuilds and explain what you have found so far and ask them to rectify the issue for you.

You seem an honest guy to me and you came here for advice as soon as you had a problem. In turn, i think CT rebuilds have a responsibility to respond correctly and not risk their reputation.

Their facebook page has a lot of good reviews too, so maybe there is a genuine slip up on their part. Hopefully they will still have your original core and can rebuild it properly and return it to you in exchange for this one.

I am sure that Trig will be with me on this next comment.

When i have rebuilt these engines, I strip them down to their component parts, Inspect every part and confirm that they are within specification according to the manufacturers figures, Clean all parts retained for rebuild, inspect all new parts required before installing, Bead blast all casings rather than just cover up with paint! any machine work ( re-bore or hone etc ) fully checked to still be in spec before rebuild and then start to rebuild the engine with everything double checked throughout the build. Prime oilways and pump, bench test engine and check oil pressure with a gauge connected. Drain startup oil and refill with correct grade oil.

I have probably missed a few points here as I dont have time to go into detail, but it looks like none of this was done on this rebuild to me.

SECOND EDIT.

If you get any poor response from the re builder, My next move would be to get an independent engine inspector to strip it down and supply an engineers report on the condition of the said re built engine. This should hold up in court if you have to go that route, plus you should request compensation for your wasted time and frustration.

If I were not stuck in the UK, I would happily do this for you but sadly you need someone local.
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Old 09-08-2021, 05:43 AM   #46
wingmanchris
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

I am in the process of talking with CT Rebuilds now, I sent them all of the pictures and info I had last night and asked that they call me today.

The inner timing chain cover is discolored and tarnished but it is not “new” debris from the timing belt. The timing belt is new and shows no damage. It looks like the parts including the gears and cover were disassembled and cleaned but not extensively cleaned(I.e. bead blasted). They stated last night that the tensioner spring is purposely left off on the 375cc engines because it won’t tighten and that is a way they can tell the engine is a true 375 and not a 295.

The stain on the crankcase below the pto side crank seal is a stain that looks like it is from assembly. It is not fresh oil. Both visible seals are new and I can see that the case gaskets have been replaced so it does look like the case was taken apart. It’s hard to tell if it was painted while it was disassembled or after reassembly.

They also stated that they definitely ran the engine on the bench before shipping it out and if the flywheel was broken then they would have noticed since it would have had the same issue I’m having with it. They then said that the broken flywheel was most likely caused by “the flywheel being turned over without a nut on the crankshaft”.

I’ll update the thread when I hear more from them today. I’m still concerned with the relatively low compression for a rebuilt engine.
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Old 09-08-2021, 06:12 AM   #47
Cartmaster
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

Ok. Waiting anxiously for your update then.

The places painted suggests it was done with the engine complete not stripped down. I dont see how the flywheel could be broken by turning it without the nut fitted either. I am however curious as to how you removed the flywheel to take the pictures and hope you did not do the damage yourself and not realized it. The low compression is a concern unless the overbored engine runs dished pistons or opened up combustion chambers in the head to lower compression. Usually only done to run a turbo!

I can only take your word on the engine having been disassembled. Maybe spin the engine with a spoon of oil down the bores and see if the compression rises as Trig suggested. All your symptoms do relate to out of wack timing and we seem to have discovered why now with the missing chunk out of the flywheel. I feel CT are going to throw this back at you as your fault. If so, I would definitely have an independant engineer strip it down and do an engineers report. You may need it.

If you can acquire a spare flywheel to prove that is the problem with the running of the engine that would be good. But it still does not answer the low compression issue. If I were local, i would pull the head and measure the bores to start with, and if not bored out check the stroke of the pistons. Then strip the rest and see if the rods and pistons have been changed to match an offset ground crank to change the capacity. If so, I would expect to see much better compression than what you have.

This is all stuff you should not have to do. They have supplied an engine unfit for purpose and are duty bound to rectify the problem.

I have serious doubts that this engine is indeed higher capacity at all. I would also like to see their workshop facilities to see if they have the resources to do this type of engineering.

I cannot state strongly enough that these are just my opinions from what you have said and the pictures I have see so far. I am not in any way dissing the company on a public forum! I just dont see how this can be sorted out with phone calls. How far away is the company from you? Is it local enough to visit personally or all done by long distance courier?

And as to leaving out the spring statement, i find that hard to believe.

Hopefully they will come good for you soon, as they have left you with a non working cart and seem to not want to take any responsibility. I could be wrong with everything I have said and it is a genuine slip up on their part and can get you sorted.

Just pulled this directly off their web site.

" I work out of home "



Disclaimer.

Obviously as stated previously, I am not dissing the company, I do not know them and am going purely on what I have read here. I hope this is a genuine mistake that can be rectified with satisfaction and all parties involved are happy with the outcome.
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Old 09-08-2021, 10:07 AM   #48
wingmanchris
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

I received the rebuilt engine with the flywheel already installed and installed my plastic fan and other related accessories on it before installing the engine in the cart. I did not look at the back of the flywheel at that time because there was no reason to do so. When I pulled the engine last night to continue troubleshooting this issue I first checked the timing belt alignment and then again removed the fan and looked down behind the flywheel while checking pulsar clearance and that is when I noticed the chunk missing. I pulled the flywheel using a bolt type puller that utilizes the three threaded holes in the flywheel. I did NOT use a three jaw style puller.

I will try and get some more detailed pics later today of the engine gaskets and seals.
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:21 AM   #49
trig123
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingmanchris View Post
I received the rebuilt engine with the flywheel already installed and installed my plastic fan and other related accessories on it before installing the engine in the cart. I did not look at the back of the flywheel at that time because there was no reason to do so. When I pulled the engine last night to continue troubleshooting this issue I first checked the timing belt alignment and then again removed the fan and looked down behind the flywheel while checking pulsar clearance and that is when I noticed the chunk missing. I pulled the flywheel using a bolt type puller that utilizes the three threaded holes in the flywheel. I did NOT use a three jaw style puller.

I will try and get some more detailed pics later today of the engine gaskets and seals.
Thanks and keep us updated on this .
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:37 PM   #50
wingmanchris
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Default Re: CT Rebuild 375 (295) Robin Engine Won’t Run

So for today’s update:

CT Rebuilds has been very lackadaisical and unprofessional with their responses to my questions and concerns from the beginning. I’m borderline ready to post screenshots of the conversations I’ve had with Carrie at CT Rebuilds which are mostly all text, even when I specifically ask her to call me instead of texting. When I have gotten her on the phone in the past she is very much in a hurry to get off the phone and brushes off al questions or concerns I have.
Maybe I’m old school but texting is not a professional way to handle an issue with a customer.
To my fault I did text her at 9:00pm last night with what I found with the flywheel, the missing tensioner spring, the low compression, and the improper valve lash. I was extremely upset and frustrated because I knew this had to be a timing issue from day 1 and should have followed my instinct and immediately pulled the motor back out of the cart rather than the extended troubleshooting I’ve been doing. She insisted from day 1 that the timing was not an issue(partially true, as the belt is aligned correctly, but still this is a fault of the rebuild and 100% on them). Last I heard from her was last Wednesday, 9/1 at 10:30am when she said she had to “pull my paperwork for the engine” so she could see what the issue might be after I explained to her what the engine was doing, sent her the video I posted here of it trying to run and misfiring/backfiring, and told her all of my coil resistance and voltage readings. Her excuse for not responding was the holiday weekend but had no answer as to why I did not receive a response Wednesday afternoon, all day Thursday, all day Friday, or all day Tuesday other than they have been busy.
I’ve been busy too, busy troubleshooting and messing with a “ready to go rebuilt engine”

I ended our text conversation last night asking her to call me this morning with a resolution as to what they are going to do next to rectify this issue. I did not receive a call, text, or email and had to text her at noon asking for an update to which I received the response “I’m gunna have to send you out another flywheel”. When I asked her about the compression and valve lash and to please call me all I received was another text “The 150 compression is perfect. Sometimes after running it they will tighten up not worried about the valve lash and as far as when you will receive it not sure but it will ship out today“

Not worried about the valve lash? I’m not worried about it either. . . . . NOW THAT I FIXED IT!!!

Below are some better pics that I took tonight highlighting the seals that appear to have a drip/stain of gasket flange sealer(I’ve used similar red Loctite sealer), the head gasket looks new, the case gasket, and what appears to be residual milling residue/metal flakes from boring around the oil pressure sensor. The replacement flywheel should arrive tomorrow or Friday and I’ll post another update once I get it installed. I plan on running the engine for a little while then changing the oil and cleaning the filter. Again, I’ll post an update then as well.










Needless to say, I will not be doing any business with CT Rebuilds again, and would advise anyone else to do the same. Once this mess is through, I plan on editing the original post with a brief overview and recommend that anyone who may come across the thread in searching for info on CT Rebuilds to run the other way. I will also be leaving a review on their Facebook page and anywhere else I’m able to.

Edit: just realized I cannot edit the original post or thread title. If it’s ok with the mods, and if someone can tell me the best sub-forum to post it, I’ll create a new thread to act as a review and give a brief overview of my experience. Making sure of course to link this thread.
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