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Electric EZGO Electric EZ GO Marathon, Medalist, TXT and RXV.



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Old 09-15-2021, 09:14 AM   #31
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

The long B- cable and the thin cables going to the motor are most definitely contributing factors for the cart struggling on hills.

The open ended lugs and exposed conductor between the lug and insulation are also issues. The air surrounding the battery pack is corrosive, so closed end lugs are needed and the lug to insulation interface needs to be sealed airtight.

For best conductivity, the closed end lugs should be crimped and soldered and marine grade (adhesive filled) shrink tubing used to make joint air tight.

My cart was only 3 years old when I got it and the first upgrade was replacing the OEM cables with open end lugs with 2Ga from Carts Unlimited. https://www.cartsunlimited.net/battery-cables.html

Top speed didn't change since it is a sepex drive with RPM limiting, but there was a noticeable (seat of the pants) improvement in acceleration, indicating more low end torque and meaning more amps getting to motor.

-----------------
I'm a retired clinical engineer and I taught troubleshooting in the USAF biomedical equipment repair school back in the mid-70's, so I've seen some strange situations. Your cart is a contender for my weird list.

Except for the amps dropping to 0A as the motor stalled, everything else seems more or less normal for a 30 year old cart.
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Old 09-15-2021, 02:05 PM   #32
JRaf
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

Okay, I'll get to the cables hopefully today. But the Minister of War is watching. She wants the cart working but she's limited my budget until I provide some proof of concept. So for the moment I'm going to put some new ring terminals on the fattest cables, replace the skinny motor wires, and put some heat shrink on all ends.
I did put the clamp meter on the B+ and B- cables and run it up and down the hill a few times. I realized now that the min/max feature was kind of useless because minimum is always going to be zero. Only the max number is relevant. (I have dumb days, and I have really dumb days.)
Anyway, today I took the seat off and perilously sat on the edge of the battery compartment. I hooked up the meter and observed as I accelerated up the hill.
As the motor spins and drives forward the meter tells me that it's quickly drawing amps as it accelerates up into the 40 to 50 range, then, when the cart hits it's top speed and a little flat spot, the amps drop down into the 20's or teens, then pick up as I start up the hill the motor getting into the 60's. Then as the machine slows and starts to struggle it flashes right up to around a hundred amps (I moved the meter around on several runs and the batteries are probably at a slightly different SOC today). As I slow the amps stay up high, 90's, 80's, down, until finally I stop, with my foot stamped down on the throttle and the meter finally freezes at around 29 amps.
As I said I ran it a few times and got very similar results each time.
?
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Old 09-15-2021, 06:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

Replacing the thin cables and the overly long ones will probably help.

So should putting new lugs on the fatter cables. Be sure to cut back to bright copper. The discolored copper has excessive resistance.
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Old 09-16-2021, 05:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillipjek View Post
I just bought a couple Mini-zs and I am wondering about charging the batteries. I have a good charger that I use for everything else RC. It is an AC/DC Hitec X4 charger.

My question is if I should just get a battery holder that holds 4 AAA batteries and use this charger, charge each cell on each channel pain, or buy a dedicated "round battery charger.

I do have a couple chargers for round batteries, but I dont trust them enough for RC car batteries to do the best job.

If it is recommended to get another charger, I am looking at these:
SkyRC MC3000
SkyRC NC2500
Orion IQ-4X
PowerEx Maha MH-C9000

Anyone know of anything better, or which of these is the best?
Nope...
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Old 09-19-2021, 07:16 PM   #35
JRaf
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

Okay. I've replaced some but not all of the wires (somedays I actually have other commitments) and I'm still experiencing roughly the same issues.
I did borrow a couple of other chargers... a little 5 amp thing which never got the batteries above 45 volts, and another old EZGO single stage charger, I think it was a Power drive II? I've already forgotten. That charger wasn't in great shape, had an outboard timer stuck on it, (which only turned on or off the AC power), and also had the relay bypassed on the board. I couldn't get that charger up over 12 or 13 amps and also never delivered more than 44 volts to the pack.
I also used a hydrometer on the batteries and every cell measured very high on the scale. So, as predicted, move along, nothing happening here.
I HAVE had some success charging the pack the last few days, getting the cart to climb the hill more often than not. Though I also haven't been around much to get any further testing done.
I have tried... and failed repeatedly to contact Centennial battery, so I would not recommend them.
I HAVE ordered a Lester Summit III and look forward to its arrival. I'll also finish up the new wires... and I'll clock back in then.
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Old 09-29-2021, 12:43 AM   #36
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

I finished the rewire. Every one of the fourteen wires is not 2ga. I've also used the new charger for the last two days, and while it seems to work fine, it hasn't changed my experience much at all. The cart still refuses to climb the hill after several complete charges.
This morning I went through the electrical troubleshooting again and all the measurements are right on... (except for one, the voltage at the battery side solenoid terminal measures a full ten volts down from PV at rest. But it comes right up when the solenoid is engaged. If I take the resistor out of the circuit, the voltage slowly drops down to around 4v. But again, if I activate the solenoid, it comes back up to pack voltage. And there's no empirical difference, the cart still won't go up the hill. The resistor's probably just out of spec.)
But then I tried something slightly out of my normal routine. Instead of letting the cart roll back down the hill at the end of one of my truncated runs I pushed it up the hill and ran it around a little at the top where it's flatter... then I ran halfway down the hill and back up a couple of times (it's not too steep at this section). Then I went all the way down and ran the cart all the way up the hill successfully. Huh.
I kept rolling and went up and down the hill five or six times. I measured amperage on the B+ leg to the solenoid and got a high of 103.5 amps. I did another run with the ammeter on the wire running from the B+ terminal on the controller to the A1 on the motor and got a similar number, 102.9a. I believe that confirms that the controller is working correctly, allowing plenty of juice to flow to the motor. I already thought the controller was working but now it seems almost certain. Does that sound correct?
So why does "exercising" the electrical system make the cart move better? After the "workout" I carefully checked every wire, the motor, and the controller for excess heat. Nothing was even warm.
This sounds to me like a mechanical issue. Is the motor, which responds positively to simple continuity and resistance tests and doesn't obviously have any flaws exposed in a simple internal examination, just kind of tired after 30 years of use?
Is something dragging the system down beyond the motor system? I think the transaxle is in pretty good shape... I can turn the spindle by hand, but maybe it's bogging down under load?
Does any of this make any sense?
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Old 09-29-2021, 08:54 AM   #37
bronsonj
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

Wow, that's an odd one!

Let it rest and it won't go, exercise it a bit and it'll function like normal.

Sounds almost like this other thread:
https://www.buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=179020
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Old 09-29-2021, 10:00 AM   #38
JRaf
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

It's clearly an epidemic.
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Old 10-05-2021, 05:42 PM   #39
JRaf
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Default Re: Batteries, charger, a long confessionary tale...

Problem solved.
Replaced controller (a Chinese 1204 clone I got on ebay and it runs as it should. It's no faster but much quicker and torquier in general and grinds up my hill with only a little effort.
I'd gotten suspicious of the controller when I read in a troubleshooting doc that the controller doesn't just take the juice from the battery and administer it to the motor, rather it acts as a DC transformer and amplifies the power. Maybe, after thirty years, the controller was simply tired! (This seemed to be confirmed on another thread by someone who had a similar experience.)
And truthfully, the problem had been somewhat alleviated as the batteries broke in but the controller was the last best repair.
Now I have an ugly thirty year old cart with new (cheap) batteries, fresh differential oil, lots of fat new wires, a clean motor, new solenoid, new (we'll see how long it lasts) controller, new charger, new(ish) tires that goes up and down my hills and will hit 13mph on the flat. (In the next couple of days I'll measure the amperage again, but I suspect it's much higher than the 100 amps I was getting before.)
I have to do something about the seats, paint, repair the lone headlight, and the steering is squirrelly as heck (13mph with iffy steering is more than fast enough) but it lives!
Thanks to everyone who helped me, particularly the great JohnnieB.
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