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Old 11-24-2020, 11:44 PM   #11
checkoutmyjunk
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post


Yell if you need me.
Welp....

Measured tire height is 17.75"

I disconnected the orange wire on the controller, no difference. Well, it seemed to give reverse more pep, I spun the tires backing out of the garage.

I took a spin without the orange wire connected. It was about .5 mile total, up a decently steep hill with about 200 feet of flatish road at the top then back. I got back and hooked the orange wire back up after I figured it was the reverse circuit cutting the speed down.

Next, I plugged my voltage meter in at the factory location were the OEM bar meter goes. let me know if I can trust these readings before I mount the meter I picked up on amazon

About 30 minutes passed since I took the first rip when I powered up the meter

Resting w/key on 50.6V
Resting with Lights on 50.1v
Full throttle steepest part of the hill 46.2v
Flatish area 47.3v
Resting at halfway 49.5v
Resting in the garage switch off 50.0V

I am reading 49.4v a the controller and 50.4 at the pack resting. I never cleaned up the terminals when I went to 2 awg. I will have to work on that first.

I don't have anyone to read the meter as I rip and it's too dark now to video it. Maybe tomorrow I can see what voltage I am seeing at the in and out of the controller.
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Old 11-25-2020, 01:14 PM   #12
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

MPH vs RPM first:
The 2000 manual says a Shuttle 955E has 14.78:1 gears, so with 17.75" tall tires the motor spins 279.892 times per MPH. That means when the cart was going 8MPH on level ground, the motor was spinning at 2239RPM.

The nominal cart speed listed in the manual is 12MPH to 14MPH, which is 3359RPM to 3918RPM at the motor with 17.75" tall tires, but the stock tire height is not specified in the manual. Are the tires on cart the stock tires (6 ply with a 50PSI inflation)?

-------------------

The meter's voltage reading is likely to be fairly accurate, but I'd take the % charge and bar graph features with a grain of salt. (none of those type functions are very accurate )

Dropping only 3V or 4V or so at top speed indicates the battery pack is in good health. What is the make and model of the batteries? (100% SoC voltage varies by brand)

-------------------

Need to measure the voltage at two more places.

1. Between controller's B- and B+ terminals when at top speed on level pavement. This will tell us if the pack voltage is actually getting to the controller.

2. Between controller's M- and B+ terminals when at top speed on level pavement. This will tell us if the voltage being applied to the controller is actually getting through the controller.
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:55 PM   #13
checkoutmyjunk
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
MPH vs RPM first:
The 2000 manual says a Shuttle 955E has 14.78:1 gears, so with 17.75" tall tires the motor spins 279.892 times per MPH. That means when the cart was going 8MPH on level ground, the motor was spinning at 2239RPM.

The nominal cart speed listed in the manual is 12MPH to 14MPH, which is 3359RPM to 3918RPM at the motor with 17.75" tall tires, but the stock tire height is not specified in the manual. Are the tires on cart the stock tires (6 ply with a 50PSI inflation)?

-------------------

The meter's voltage reading is likely to be fairly accurate, but I'd take the % charge and bar graph features with a grain of salt. (none of those type functions are very accurate )

Dropping only 3V or 4V or so at top speed indicates the battery pack is in good health. What is the make and model of the batteries? (100% SoC voltage varies by brand)

-------------------

Need to measure the voltage at two more places.

1. Between controller's B- and B+ terminals when at top speed on level pavement. This will tell us if the pack voltage is actually getting to the controller.

2. Between controller's M- and B+ terminals when at top speed on level pavement. This will tell us if the voltage being applied to the controller is actually getting through the controller.
Rebranded Trojan T-105s. The charger is a brand new summit ii

Not factory but factory spec It came with the narrow tires. When I was buying replacements I picked up optional wider tires. I found a new set of wheels with tires in the right and size and lug pattern for $120 that's not much more than buying the skinny tires. Yes they are six ply. I believe the are trailer tires as they have dot marking. The wide wheels are in the rear only, the fronts were replaced before I got the cart and are new.
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Old 12-22-2020, 12:12 AM   #14
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

[QUOTE=JohnnieB;1784441

Need to measure the voltage at two more places.

1. Between controller's B- and B+ terminals when at top speed on level pavement. This will tell us if the pack voltage is actually getting to the controller.

2. Between controller's M- and B+ terminals when at top speed on level pavement. This will tell us if the voltage being applied to the controller is actually getting through the controller.[/QUOTE]

Getting identical readings at both points, 45v up hill, 46.2v to 46.9v on as flat as it gets around here.

Battery pack was showing 49.7v when I left and 49v when I returned after a cold wet 1/2 mile ride in the hills around my house.

I can't find a diagram of the F&R switch online, any ideas short of hitting it with the ohm meter?

I started drawing a schematic of the drive system and I was not how to draw the switch. The manuals I have show the harnesses only so I started roughing out the circuit on the back of a data sheet.
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Old 12-22-2020, 10:56 AM   #15
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

The attached schematic is for a 2000 955E, so a 2001 955E ought to be the same.

There is a version of the 955E with a rollout battery tray, but other than having a connector in the battery cables, the rest is the same.
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Old 12-22-2020, 03:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
The attached schematic is for a 2000 955E, so a 2001 955E ought to be the same.

There is a version of the 955E with a rollout battery tray, but other than having a connector in the battery cables, the rest is the same.
That is much cleaner, thank you. I thought I had all the EZGO manuals.
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Old 12-22-2020, 04:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
The attached schematic is for a 2000 955E, so a 2001 955E ought to be the same.

There is a version of the 955E with a rollout battery tray, but other than having a connector in the battery cables, the rest is the same.

You asked me to get the voltages, going in and out of the controller. What is your conclusion? I need to look at the motor now?
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Old 12-22-2020, 04:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

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Originally Posted by checkoutmyjunk View Post
You asked me to get the voltages, going in and out of the controller. What is your conclusion? I need to look at the motor now?
If the battery voltage under load, the input voltage under load (B- to B+) to the controller and the output voltage under load (M- to B+) from the controller are all the same, or within a couple tenths of a volt, the controller is going to 100% throttle.

That leaves motor or batteries.

The batteries are okay, but could be better.

That leaves the motor.

-----------------

For some reason I thought you had a 36V battery pack, but looking back at the voltages given, it is a 48V pack (8 x 6V) so here is the schematic for it.

-------------

The service manual I have is 34892-G01. Electric Powered Cargo and Personnel Carriers. Starting Model year 2000. Revised 11/2000.

Unfortunately the maximum sized PDF file that can be attached to a post here is 19.07MB and the file is 21.3MB, so it cannot posted here.
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Old 12-23-2020, 09:42 AM   #19
checkoutmyjunk
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
If the battery voltage under load, the input voltage under load (B- to B+) to the controller and the output voltage under load (M- to B+) from the controller are all the same, or within a couple tenths of a volt, the controller is going to 100% throttle.

That leaves motor or batteries.

The batteries are okay, but could be better.

That leaves the motor.

-----------------

For some reason I thought you had a 36V battery pack, but looking back at the voltages given, it is a 48V pack (8 x 6V) so here is the schematic for it.

-------------

The service manual I have is 34892-G01. Electric Powered Cargo and Personnel Carriers. Starting Model year 2000. Revised 11/2000.

Unfortunately the maximum sized PDF file that can be attached to a post here is 19.07MB and the file is 21.3MB, so it cannot posted here.
I do have that manual, I must have confused myself. Thank you for clarifying.

The battery pack was used in the hills around here for about 2 miles, then it sat for a month in my garage, I did not put it on the charger. Hopefully that explains why you think the pack "could be better" I'd hate to think that my barely used pack is sub par, I just bought them in August of this year and have maybe 8 charge cycles on them.


Now I have to decide if I want to have the motor rebuilt or just spend the 12 or 13 hundred on a D&D motor and controller. I wish I had another known good motor to throw in there for trouble shooting purposes.
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Old 12-23-2020, 11:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Range and speed troubleshooting help

Deep-cycle batteries only have about 75% of their rated storage capacity when new and it take a couple dozen charge cycles for them to reach anywhere near their rated capacity and upwards of a hundred to reach it.

If they were fully charge before they sat idle for a month, then they make not have been damaged too much. Cart batteries self-discharge at about 1% SoC per day, so they only went down to 70% SoC and the aging (plate sulfation) is faster under 70% SoC.

The average SoC maintained throughout the battery's cradle to grave lifespan is a major factor determining the length of that lifespan, so recharge after each use, or at least overnight if the cart was used that day. And never let the batteries set for more than a month without being charged, less time sitting is better.

Also, it is winter. so the temperature is lower and the colder a battery is, the less storage capacity and performance are.

--------------------
A for motor and controller, your 955E has 14.78:1 gears and 17.75" tires, so the motor has to spin at about 2800 RPM for the cart to do 10MPH and about 4200RPM to do 15MPH. (279.9RPM per 1MPH)

How fast do you want the cart to go?

Personally, I put an Alltrax SR48500 or SR48600 in it and the longest motor I could fit between differential and rear shocks, or other obstruction.

In general terms, a series motors can be wound for high speed and low torque or for low speed and high torque - or someplace between those two extremes. In other words, speed is sacrificed to get more torque or torque is sacrificed to get more speed. However, with larger armature and stator coils, more torque can be obtained while maintaining the same speed to torque ratio.

The diameter of the motor is more or less dictated by the dimensions of the mounting surface on the differential, but the motor case can be lengthened a few inches to build a more powerful motor. For example a stock PDS motor is 8.5" long while my motor is 9.75" long and is stock speed with 30% more torque. D7D also has a sepex motor is 10.5" case the has 40% more than stock torque, but is a bit slower than stock speed. The same physics apply to series motor case lengths.

-----------------
The cart's top speed is also determined by the rolling resistance of the cart. Your cart is a heavy beast, so when pushing it by hand, it'll take a bit of effort to get it moving, but once it is moving, keeping it moving ought to be fairly easy. Any mechanical drag like bad bearings or dragging brakes will lower top speed.
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