DANGER: ICON I40L + ROYPOW S51105 Safety Issues

[russhull]

I have a 2-year old Icon that my charger would not turn off and ended up burning off my lead batteries.

Took it into the dealer for warrantee and long story short, Icon denied the claim because the batteries were burned up. They said there was no log of the overcharging….

Dealer offered several choices, 1 of them being Lithium Roypow S51105.

1 week later while driving a semi-longer distance the entire golf cart seized up, locking the brakes (Very dangerous going from 27 to 0 in the middle of a street) and was frozen for a while.

Finally figured out how to ‘reboot’ the battery and started again.
About 1 minute later the same thing happened, this time while going up a SLIGHT hill while going ~27MPH.
This time, when the battery turned off again, brakes locked in place.
Rebooted the battery again, this time the brakes were stuck in the locked position. Had to eventually put it in tow mode to release the brakes.
Was then able to start again, went the rest of the drive at 15MPH to not risk it.

Went home and started to troubleshoot. I am able to reproduce the problem going up a ~100 yard hill. Once I get maxish speed the battery turns off, brakes lock in place.

DANGEROUS RISK of this combo.

Based on another battery manufacturer website which has a max of 23mph for their batters, I think the issue is the Lithium battery cannot handle the 27MPH.

Looking at the specs, it has 100A with 200A for 10s. My guess is we exceed that and the battery turns off, creating the HUGE SAFTY RISK…. like CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT SAFTY RISK.

I am waiting on the dealer to pick it up and work on it again. maybe the Performance version of the battery (100A w/315A for 30s) can handle these minor hills.

Will keep the community updated on this, as this HUGE risk was unknown to me when I purchased the battery. Until a solution is met, I would strongly suggest you stay away from the combination

QQ: Has anyone else had this problem and is there a simplish solution? Would the performance version (S51105P) work? Am I right in the Amp is the issue?

Thoughts?

Thanks
-russ

[ojo]

I don't know the Icon, but seems to be the same design as the R XV ( em motor brake, which mechanically engage, if the battery shuts off ). Biggest concern with these carts and lithium. With an aftermarket controller like Alltrax / Navitas you could reduce the max amp draw rate in the controller. That would be one solution, or a battery with a higher discharge rate ( more expensive ).

[russhull]

Originally Posted by ojo

I don't know the Icon, but seems to be the same design as the R XV ( em motor brake, which mechanically engage, if the battery shuts off ). Biggest concern with these carts and lithium. With an aftermarket controller like Alltrax / Navitas you could reduce the max amp draw rate in the controller. That would be one solution, or a battery with a higher discharge rate ( more expensive ).

So I am looking at the “performance” version of they battery that allows 150A regular with 315A peak for 30s.

Thoughts on that? If they dont do it for free (I would to avoid a lawsuit), it shouldnt cost more than 300$ more to upgrade.

[jeffahfah]

150A would be closer, I seem to recall that someone recording the voltage saw peaks above that but not by much.

The problem is the EMB. It needs current to stay open. Should there be no voltage then the EMB will engage.

You can search for it on this forum. There are many examples of people with ICONs and trying lipo combinations that end up the same as you. The EMB requires 24v to stay disengaged. BMS in lithium ion set ups are designed to fail in order to protect the battery with many factors contributing to why they would fail (or self protect).

It's just a bad combo. I personally dont care about the people that claim "I've been doing this for x years and have had zero problems" there's plenty of people that have. Maybe if you're on flat terrain and mild climate then it would be ok but I still would not risk it. Someone was looking into creating a buffer of sorts so then when the BMS killed the voltage that there would be a buffer to slow down and stop. It doesnt prevent the problem but prevents the startling "oh crap" moment that occurs. Still seems like a band aid and not really a fix and not sure how far they got, lost track of that guy.

One of the owners of ICON also owns a lithium battery setup called Nexgen and for a while they offered them on ICON's from the manufacturer but now dont and only provide AGM.

Unless whoever you use is willing to experiment with you and find something that works I would forgo lithium on ICON's and any of the LV Tong clones with EMB. There's too much at risk. For me personally would be ok if I were the sole rider but couldnt risk it with passengers. I am eager to see if there will ever be a solution but cant think of any other manufacturer with EMB like this so doubt it will be batteries that change. Someone recently suggested a parallel setup instead of series, I asked the sales guy that commented on this forum how they handle this situation and got zilch for a response.

Not trying to be super negative. Going 30mph in these things with insta brake engaged when you are not prepared for it is super dangerous. Even if it's 5 for every 100 with this setup it's still too risky.

[anpgator]

Seems an easy solution would be to avoid going WOT on any incline, no matter how slight. I’ve installed several Roypow’s, both the “P” and standard model, in lifted and non-lifted carts and this has never been an issue, but I’m in an area where there are virtually no hills.

[prt328]

I have the same setup on a 2023 i20. But I have the P series. 11.5 miles on the cart and it locked up as you described. Regardless of the battery being used ( a flooded battery can get disconnected as well) there is a serious flaw with this electro-mechanical brake. I have seen posts on this subject dating back 2+ years and a lot of "fixes" offered. None of which fix the design flaw. I filed a report with the US Consumer Product Commission to get this addressed and fiyed before someone dies. I would encourage othe ICON owners to do the same ASAP. https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Ya...h-Recall-Alert