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Old 06-04-2021, 09:10 PM   #1
flyby71
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Default 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

I was driving on the beach today between 2900 and 3000 rpms. Sand was hard packed from rain and mostly smooth. A few random times the motor seemed to loose power for a split second and then return to normal, I’m talking for less than a second, but it was a noticeable loss that could be felt. Nothing seemed to cause this issue, the only way I could get it to repeat was by driving steady at 2900 to 3000 rpms and on smooth sand with no bumps. There were no problems when driving over any bumpy areas in the sand. When driving on pavement, I could not get this issue to occur. Any thoughts?

The motor is a freshly rebuilt 2002 model 23 HP Vanguard with 8.5 hours on it.

Thanks for any help!
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:28 PM   #2
raydhd
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

Is it possible that either the belt or tires slipped on the sand causing the governor to kick in ? Some times when I am driving thru water or sand my belt slips momentarily causing my ungoverned engine to rev up.
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Old 06-04-2021, 09:54 PM   #3
flyby71
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by raydhd View Post
Is it possible that either the belt or tires slipped on the sand causing the governor to kick in ? Some times when I am driving thru water or sand my belt slips momentarily causing my ungoverned engine to rev up.
The best way to describe how it felt is like someone turned the key off, then on very quickly. It wasn’t whiplash abrupt, but plenty enough to feel it. The governor on the motor was removed as well as the transaxle governor.
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Old 06-05-2021, 12:09 PM   #4
Bosstin87
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

You should probably stop letting a hack job machanic work on your stuff.......
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Old 06-05-2021, 02:35 PM   #5
Bosstin87
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

Please dont bann me......im the mechamic hahah!!!!!
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Old 06-05-2021, 03:58 PM   #6
flyby71
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstin87 View Post
You should probably stop letting a hack job machanic work on your stuff.......
🤣🤣🤣

I owe my hack job mechanic big time for the magic you worked on my cart! I need to do a build thread.
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Old 06-06-2021, 09:22 PM   #7
flyby71
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

So the problem didn’t happen all day, but went for an evening ride and it happened multiple times again. All occurred in the range between 2600 and 3000 rpm. 2 adults and a child on the cart. Pretty strong steady wind, and driving on the sand. The motor sounded liked it was at the top of a gear and almost ready to “shift”, if that makes sense. I would hear a mechanical click sound then almost like a cough from the motor as it momentarily lost power. It did it back to back a few times then went a while without doing it. Then it would do it again. The motor almost seems like it’s running rough below 3000 rpm at times. Could have been gusting wind putting a decent load on the cart to blame for the seemingly rough running, but I’m at a loss for the random power loss. I tried to replicate it again on the pavement and never had it cut out like it did on the sand. Seemed like maybe a hiccup or two, but no where near a cut out.

The motor also has a quick stutter between 2500 and 3000 rpm when you give it gas quickly and try to take off fast.

Seems like there is something going on in the 2500 to 3000 rpm range.

Anyone have any ideas?
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:59 AM   #8
slonomo
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

The 2 barrel Briggs carb is notorious for having a midrange stutter. Basically this carburator was designed to run equipment like a generator or pressurewasher at a steady 3600 rpm. It's not designed to drive like a car with varied throttle positions. For that reason it just has an issue under load, like a cart full of family driving in sand lol.

There are people who have played with these carbs to try and eliminate the dead spot, and it can help, but in my opinion it's just a design flaw that no matter what you do it will never perform flawlessly. There are also many people that don't have this problem at all and say that their cart runs fantastic. I had the same engine and carb and it was awful for me. I ended up switching to a Mikuni motorcycle carb to solve the issue.

In contrast, I also had a Predator 670 with a 2 barrel carb, and it didn't have the same mid range issue at all. It actually ran quite well.

So, my conclusion is that there are different models of these 2 barrel carbs that are better than others. The question is: which one?
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Old 06-07-2021, 07:03 AM   #9
flyby71
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by slonomo View Post
The 2 barrel Briggs carb is notorious for having a midrange stutter. Basically this carburator was designed to run equipment like a generator or pressurewasher at a steady 3600 rpm. It's not designed to drive like a car with varied throttle positions. For that reason it just has an issue under load, like a cart full of family driving in sand lol.

There are people who have played with these carbs to try and eliminate the dead spot, and it can help, but in my opinion it's just a design flaw that no matter what you do it will never perform flawlessly. There are also many people that don't have this problem at all and say that their cart runs fantastic. I had the same engine and carb and it was awful for me. I ended up switching to a Mikuni motorcycle carb to solve the issue.

In contrast, I also had a Predator 670 with a 2 barrel carb, and it didn't have the same mid range issue at all. It actually ran quite well.

So, my conclusion is that there are different models of these 2 barrel carbs that are better than others. The question is: which one?
Great explanation! Thanks. That gives me a pretty clear understanding of what’s going on. It’s running fantastic with just the wife, the little one, and I around the neighborhood. We have a lot of trees and houses to block strong winds, and the streets are all black top or concrete.

The motor hasn’t died when it has cut out driving around the beach, so as long as it’s not hurting the motor and it doesn’t leave me stranded, I can live with it for now. We only come to the beach a few times a year.

I’ll post a picture of the model carb that I have.

Do you happen to remember which Mikuni carb that you ended up running?
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Old 06-07-2021, 07:13 AM   #10
flyby71
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Default Re: 23 Vanguard Random Momentary Power Loss

Here is the carb that’s on it now.
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