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Old 01-14-2021, 02:45 PM   #11
army
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

There actually was an identifiable cause for the slow starting problem with one of my VG's. Turned out the choke linkage was allowing the choke plate to open a bit. It was sneaky about it though. With the choke pulled all the way out the choke plate looked like it was closed tight and pushing on the bottom of it with my finger confirmed that. But when I watched what it was doing while I tried to start the engine I could see the choke plate jiggling open a bit when the engine shook from cranking it over. So the mixture wasn't rich enough for the engine to fire up quickly. It would eventually start if I kept cranking it over though.

I tweaked the goofy little linkage rod so there was no slop when the choke was closed. When I did a test start the engine fired up right away. The shop was about 65F though so not a good enough evaluation. It sat in a bay overnight where the temp was about 35F when I went out this morning to give it a whirl. It was running in 3-4 seconds instead of the 10-15 seconds it had been taking before. I shut it down right away so it didn't warm up and tried it again this afternoon and vroom. Not gonna dance around the fire till I do some cold starts for several mornings. Probably not gonna be the same slow starting problem the other VG has but I'm definitely gonna check.

I don't have a pic of mine but this is the linkage rod I'm talking about.
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Old 01-14-2021, 07:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

It might be that this is a common problem amongst 23 hp VG engines. I've never cranked my 16 longer than 3 seconds, it has always started quickly. The 23 I had was harder to start, maybe it had the same issue? Glad you got it figured out.
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Old 01-15-2021, 07:29 AM   #13
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Talking Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

This is how I got rid of the slack. Didn't take much of a tweak to work properly. I'm not very impressed with a mickey mouse choke linkage like that on an expensive engine, not that B&S gives a shlt what I think. I'll post what I find on the other engine. I doubt it has the exact same issue but maybe. If it does it would be an indication of a systemic problem with the 23 HP VG's. You wouldn't think that would get past quality control at B&S though. Seems more likely to be a case where a few VG linkages are sloppy from the factory and mine just happened to be one of them.

The VG I just fixed has a 12V pump. The other one still has the original vacuum pump connected to the valve cover. It fires up instantly squirting gas in the carb so the prolonged start ups seem to be a fuel delivery issue. My 390 clone cart engine had a problem like that where the longer it sat the harder it was to start, to the point where if it was parked for a few weeks I had to pressurize the tank to get the gas flowing again. So I put a primer bulb in the line halfway between the pulse pump and the carb. As long as I use it first to bleed the air out the engine starts right up. Could be the VG needs something like that, or maybe it's something else entirely. The juice for me is figuring out stuff like that (another word for it is masochism )

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Old 01-16-2021, 07:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

It's still not working right. Not consistently. The goofy little bent rod is jamming things up sometimes and holding the choke plate open a bit. Gonna get rid of the Rube Goldberg linkage and replace it with something simple and reliable. Should be able to come up with something that will eliminate the 3 convoluted pivot points in the factory design. There's actually 4 counting the lever on the dash. All that just to open and close a choke plate.
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Old 01-16-2021, 07:50 AM   #15
Dave in VA
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

I lost that little piece of linkage. My solution was a piece of 12ga wire to operate the choke. I would have to raise the seat to choke and start the first time. But it would take 10-15 secs to start.
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

How does your 12ga wire set up actually work? Is there are a thread for your engine? Looks kinda different.
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Old 01-17-2021, 07:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by army View Post
How does your 12ga wire set up actually work? Is there are a thread for your engine? Looks kinda different.
It worked fine. The wire replaced the lost linkage. Push it toward the carb for CHOKE. The pic shows it in the OPEN position, hooked on that clip.

The engine came from CCP with the OEM choke lever. No choke knob/flexible cable, so the seat had to be raised to choke the engine anyway. I tried to use a choke cable early on, but couldn't make it work right.

https://buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=69938
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Old 01-17-2021, 08:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

Had a look at your thread. Pretty interesting stuff. Gonna read through it again.

I have a pair of those Mudlites on my JD 400 snowblowing tractor. I bought a set of 4 used almost new ones. Actually got them for my cart but ended up with the 26x12-12's on my 400 and gave my brother the 26x10-12's for his JD 420. The seller didn't say why he sold them but I quickly figured it out. At lower speeds they ride so rough just driving across the shop floor is a bumpy ride. They're ok rolling along at 10 mph or more though. Are yours like that?



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Old 01-17-2021, 09:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

This is the test fit I did during my cart build with the Mudlites to see how they looked. After running them on the JD 400 I'm glad I didn't put them on the cart. I'm 66 now and shaking my guts out is not as fun as it used to be.


I went with the 26x12-12 Field Trax for the cart that I originally bought for another 400. They were too short for that use but they're just right for my cart. Had to track down 4 bolt Cub Cadet 12x10 rear wheels first though.


In case anybody is wondering the Sahara Classics on the other end of my cart have excellent stopping power and I don't even have brakes on the front ().
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Old 01-17-2021, 09:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: Two 23 HP Vanguards and a cold start issue

I'm gonna prune the linkage down to just a simple rod that works the choke lever. I think I can route it back to where it's easily used from the seat by hooking it up like my old Ford tractors. The chokes on them are just a straight to the carb spring loaded 1/8" rod with a knob to pull on. I have a drawer full of old Ford tractor choke and throttle rods and thread-on ball joints for them. Might as well make use of them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in VA View Post
It worked fine. The wire replaced the lost linkage. Push it toward the carb for CHOKE. The pic shows it in the OPEN position, hooked on that clip.

The engine came from CCP with the OEM choke lever. No choke knob/flexible cable, so the seat had to be raised to choke the engine anyway. I tried to use a choke cable early on, but couldn't make it work right.

https://buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=69938
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