Programming Curtis Controller

[brad2388]

Originally Posted by BobBoyce

A few years back I made a post about how many of each level that were available. There were way more than a dozen! The steps are Service, Dealer, OEM, Factory, and Development. Each of those has multiple versions that are slightly different in the blend of capabilities. When you didn't stay in contact, I figured you had found what you were looking for...

Once i couldnt figure it out i just gave up. Work got in the way and just got on the back burner. I would like to give you my number when your back towards north carolina i can meet you with it?

[brad2388]

Originally Posted by BobBoyce

A few years back I made a post about how many of each level that were available. There were way more than a dozen! The steps are Service, Dealer, OEM, Factory, and Development. Each of those has multiple versions that are slightly different in the blend of capabilities. When you didn't stay in contact, I figured you had found what you were looking for...

I have went thru each level trying to raise it. Looms like under monitoring the motor is stopping st 9000 rpm.

[can-ev]

Looking for some guidance. I have an ev conversion of a classic bug. Out of the gates it was working briefly (1 mile) and then started dying on me. almost like it was outputting 1/10 of the power. After some troubleshooting and verifying (throttle, connections, etc)
got connected via an FTDI serial cable with the useful info in this forum. It connects, monitors and I can view settings. If I try to change settings, it doesn't save and I hear a relay click off and the setting reverts to original.

At the moment, it will "works", but at full throttle, it is still outputting 1/10th or less of what it should. However, when I run the diagnostic test it will spin at whatever rpm the test is set to . Ie 2000rpm or 4000rpm.

Model: 1238 7501

Protocol Version 2
serial 22728
OS Version 10
Build 70
SM Version 2.60
Param Blk Ver 1.0
VCL App Ver 1.15

As a 2nd question, I bought 1238 6501 thinking a controller swap would be a good test, not realizing its not setup with the same programming. Is the 6501 pretty much an expensive paper weight I mistakenly bought?

[BobBoyce]

Originally Posted by can-ev

Looking for some guidance. I have an ev conversion of a classic bug. Out of the gates it was working briefly (1 mile) and then started dying on me. almost like it was outputting 1/10 of the power. After some troubleshooting and verifying (throttle, connections, etc)
got connected via an FTDI serial cable with the useful info in this forum. It connects, monitors and I can view settings. If I try to change settings, it doesn't save and I hear a relay click off and the setting reverts to original.

At the moment, it will "works", but at full throttle, it is still outputting 1/10th or less of what it should. However, when I run the diagnostic test it will spin at whatever rpm the test is set to . Ie 2000rpm or 4000rpm.

Model: 1238 7501

Protocol Version 2
serial 22728
OS Version 10
Build 70
SM Version 2.60
Param Blk Ver 1.0
VCL App Ver 1.15

As a 2nd question, I bought 1238 6501 thinking a controller swap would be a good test, not realizing its not setup with the same programming. Is the 6501 pretty much an expensive paper weight I mistakenly bought?

The used controller market is flooded with surplus floor scrubber/polisher AC controllers like that -6501. They lack a usable VCL, since they were not designed to be used in an electric vehicle.

Now about the -7501... OS 10 is a decent OS version, but being compiled with VCL 1.15 has crippled it. Again, a fairly basic VCL that has limited vehicle control functionality. It was designed for fork lift/truck operation, not for on-road vehicle use. You'll need an AC controller with a VCL that was written to operate an EV with more functionality. Since Win-VCL is not available to the public, you're better off looking for a controller that was designed and programmed for a true on-road EV.

[jake292]

Originally Posted by BobBoyce

They probably updated the 1236SE to require a dual mode interface (Logic Level inverted serial/CANbus) like the new 1309 interface. A hacked interface will not communicate with a newer or updated 1236SE...

I found a place online that rents the Curtis 1313 hand held programmer and even that won't connect. Can anything be done to get it connecting? Is it just junk now?

[BobBoyce]

Originally Posted by jake292

I found a place online that rents the Curtis 1313 hand held programmer and even that won't connect. Can anything be done to get it connecting? Is it just junk now?

You need more than a handheld. It will likely require a reset, then a reflash back to factory stock. I had 2 controllers earlier today that were corrupted and would not communicate with an OEM handheld, or an OEM programming station. I had to use my mobile Development level programming station to reset them, then reflash them back to factory stock, After that, they communicated just fine with the OEM handheld and the OEM programming station.

[jake292]

Originally Posted by BobBoyce

You need more than a handheld. It will likely require a reset, then a reflash back to factory stock. I had 2 controllers earlier today that were corrupted and would not communicate with an OEM handheld, or an OEM programming station. I had to use my mobile Development level programming station to reset them, then reflash them back to factory stock, After that, they communicated just fine with the OEM handheld and the OEM programming station.

Thanks again Bob. Glad to hear it's not a lost cause. The Curtis site only shows one place for servicing in North America, Flight Systems Industrial Products. I'm not finding much info about Curtis repairs on google, are there any other places that could reflash this thing?

[BobBoyce]

Originally Posted by jake292

Thanks again Bob. Glad to hear it's not a lost cause. The Curtis site only shows one place for servicing in North America, Flight Systems Industrial Products. I'm not finding much info about Curtis repairs on google, are there any other places that could reflash this thing?

FSIP is the only Curtis authorized repair/rebuild facility for those controllers. I have worked with a few guys there over the years to provide them with information to help them with their work. However, there are limits to what I am allowed to share, even with them. They are hardware people, trying to repair hardware failures on the circuit boards. When it gets into the software aspect of controllers, they are only allowed the use of the Curtis file database and software. I have no such limits, and as such, have developed tools that allow me to work with OS in manners that nobody else has the capabilities to do, not even Curtis.

It's all about intellectual property. I respect the limits of that. I do not step over that line. I have been asked repeatedly to do that in order to override VCL limits in modern controllers. I have always declined, out of respect for the intellectual property of others. I expect the same respect for my own intellectual property.

The tools that I have developed are intended to restore controllers that suffer from software issues. Many controllers are corrupted by those seeking to override limits, mostly top speed. When this is done, results can be unpredictable. The hardware relies upon careful control of that hardware, by software, to maintain operation within assigned parameters. Reprogramming must always be done with that in mind. Peoples lives are at stake when and if something goes wrong!

As an OEM, I took on the responsibility to design and manufacture one-off prototype vehicles for my clients. When Curtis referred me to another OEM for VCL support, that was the last straw. I refused to deliver a prototype vehicle to a client with some other OEMs name or logo popping up on the screen! It had to be the clients name or logo, or I was not going to deliver it. I shut down that business. I have too many other successful ventures going on, I did not need that headache.

So in a way, Curtis is responsible for why I do what I do now. They forgot the "little people", the end customers that bought and paid for the vehicles. They chose the side of the OEMs, their "bread and butter" so to speak, over the rights of the end users of the products made by those OEMs.

Bob

[can-ev]

Originally Posted by BobBoyce

The used controller market is flooded with surplus floor scrubber/polisher AC controllers like that -6501. They lack a usable VCL, since they were not designed to be used in an electric vehicle.

Now about the -7501... OS 10 is a decent OS version, but being compiled with VCL 1.15 has crippled it. Again, a fairly basic VCL that has limited vehicle control functionality. It was designed for fork lift/truck operation, not for on-road vehicle use. You'll need an AC controller with a VCL that was written to operate an EV with more functionality. Since Win-VCL is not available to the public, you're better off looking for a controller that was designed and programmed for a true on-road EV.

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I have a couple duds on my hands. Is there any trusted places to have these programmed or source a controller that I can use instead of me buying a floor polisher again Do you program these or know someone?

[BobBoyce]

Originally Posted by can-ev

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I have a couple duds on my hands. Is there any trusted places to have these programmed or source a controller that I can use instead of me buying a floor polisher again Do you program these or know someone?

I do what I am allowed to do, ie work with the software packages that are available. I was never authorized to write VCL files, because Curtis referred me to other OEMs for VCL support. While I am allowed to do things for my own purposes, I am not licensed to do these things for others. Anyone that does this sort of work is in the same boat, we can only do what is allowed, without stepping on the toes of other OEMs. It's all part of the contracts required. My contract expired, and I chose not to renew, which allows me the freedoms that I now have. I do work with other OEMs to aid them when and where I can, but I also respect the intellectual property of others, as I insist that my own intellectual property be respected.

I carry some of these controllers you seek with me as I travel around the country. I'm not in the business of selling controllers. They are used as spares when I come across vehicles with issues, for testing verification purposes. I watch the various venues, like eBay, and will sometimes buy them, if the price is right. Many times, they had been corrupted, so I will restore them to original condition. More often than not, I'm restoring corrupted controllers that had been corrupted by dealers or individuals that corrupted them in order to try to squeeze a couple more MPH out of them. Most times, they are recoverable. But once in a while, by the time I'm called in, they were electronically damaged by the corruption.

Bob