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Old 08-02-2020, 08:59 AM   #1
Sergio
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Default Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

This idea is related to a recent thread about the clicking sound from the Reverse Contactors when powered by the Foot Switch.

I don't like the prevailing implementation method of having the Reverse Contactor turn ON/OFF with the pedal switch for a few reasons.

I understand the reason it is recommended:
If the Reverse Contactor is powered by the key switch and You forget the Key Switch ON, the high power reversing Contactor coil can overheat and get damaged.

Unfortunately having the Reverse Contactor turn ON/OFF with the pedal can
cause more stress and perhaps shorter life for the contacts.

The reason is that when You lift your foot off the pedal, the Controller stops the current flow from M- to B- which also stops all current going through the Solenoid so the contacts of the Solenoid open with no load.

That is not the case on the Reversing Contactor as current continues to flow for a little longer, perhaps at high levels depending on the torque conditions when the pedal was released.

This idea uses a re-settable time off delay relay that keeps power to the Reversing Contactor for 5 minutes after the pedal is UP.

So if you are driving or maneuvering and lift your foot off the pedal for less than 5 minutes to slow down or stop, the Reversing Contactor stays energized as it should.

If You stop longer than 5 minutes or turn the key OFF, the Reversing Contactor goes OFF immediately.

The 5 minutes is just my example, the device below can adjusted from 0.1 sec to 10 days delay.

To make adjustments You need to use both dials, for the 5 minutes delay example You would set range to 10 minutes and the percentage to 50%.

GAEYAELE GRT8-B1,AC/DC12V-240V Relay:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...D4HXVRT2&psc=1

Use a male quick connect on the input side connection from the delay Relay and a matting female quick connect on the delay relay output that goes to the FNR.

That would allow for a quick by-pass in case of a failure of the delay relay.



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Old 08-02-2020, 09:01 AM   #2
Sergio
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Since most typical FNR toggle switches are DPDT, I also like the idea of using one side of the FNR for the same purpose of the "limit switch" found in OEM circuits.

That disables the Controller as the FNR switch passes or stays in Neutral.

Having the Foot Switch before the FNR creates the possibility of the Controller still be outputting power when the FNR is switched to Neutral.

If You combine the previous delay relay with a different FNR wiring, You can have both the Solenoid and the Reversing Contactor stay powered through the delay since lifting the foot off the pedal would still disable the Controller.

I would suggest a shorter delay like 1 minute in this case as it should allow enough time for most typical driving where you lift the foot of the pedal to make a turn, slow down or maneuver.

Use a male quick connect on the input side connection from the delay Relay and a matting female quick connect on the delay relay output that goes to the FNR.

That would allow for a quick by-pass in case of a failure of the delay relay.



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Old 08-02-2020, 09:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Great idea Sergio!

Thanks for writing this up.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:11 AM   #4
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Could probably figure out a way to use this as a charger cycle restart. Interrupt the activation circuit for a few minutes once every 10 days..
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

That was actually the original reason why I looked at those devices, long term storage of my Lithium pack at a location where home automation devices were not available.

However, the Asymmetric Cycle Timer version is more appropriate for that application and You can wait up to 100 days between cycles:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...D4HXVRT2&psc=1

If You were to use it with a "sense wire" OBC setup, You would interrupt the sense wire instead of the charger power.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:27 AM   #6
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Correct. I was going to build something like this with a sprinkler timer and 24 volt relay but then bought a gen 3 DPI..

Thanks for the write up and knowledge.
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Ok....so clear something up for my non-engineering mind.

The SW202's for a series motor has the "F/R" switch. When "F" is selected, it powers up one of the two contactors, and of course, when "R" is selected, it powers up the other contactor, while leaving the first contactor open.

If the delay relay is setup, it would be wired to the + (middle of toggle switch) side of the F\R switch.

Then when you switch to R or back, the power is still in the + wire feed and it will then engage....or "click" in the given contactor, while the first set of contactors will open as you just cut the power to them. However, that second contactor (that you just switched to) will close without the need to step on the go peddle.....as long as the switch is done before the "timer" has timed out.

The "clicking" will occur in the process of switching from F to R (and back) but the delay relay will help prevent the "click on\click off" when the driver is just tapping the go peddle in order to move the cart in one direction, slowly through the woods\path.

If I understand this correctly.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Correct, if wiring the delay relay on a typical FNR after pedal switch implementation, only the Reversing Contactor stops clicking with every pedal Up/Down press.

The Main Solenoid will still click every time the pedal goes Up/Down.

If You also wire the FNR using the second diagram, then neither the Reversing Contactor nor Main Solenoid will click every time the pedal goes Up/Down.

The Reversing contactor will always click one side OFF then the other side ON if You change directions, no way around that on a Series cart.

The Controller will be disabled with Pedal UP in either implementation since the power to Controller KSI input will still come from the pedal switch.

The second diagram also disables the controller if pedal is Down when You switch directions.
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Old 08-02-2020, 09:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
The second diagram also disables the controller if pedal is Down when You switch directions.
For some reason I do not see the wiring diagrams. Just the little blue box with the ? mark inside of it.
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:08 PM   #10
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Default Re: Reversing Contactor Delayed OFF Timer Idea

This conversation started with me and another member talking about “less clicking” of the solenoid for a hunting cart. I had a micro switch go bad causing my solinoid to randomly click click click. Upon further research, the solenoid actually gets over worked even on a typical golf cart, on a golf course..... It can open and close 300+ times on one round.

I bypassed the micro switch directly to my key switch as I have a hunting cart. There are NO Clicks while driving through the woods unless you go from F/N/R then you hear the HD reversing contractor. When the key is turned off......the whole system is shut off. I agree you have to be mindful of the setup, and turn the key off when you stop, like you would a car......but going on well over a year setup like this and there has been no issues or codes from my Alltrax.

The solenoid itself has probably saved 1000s of open/closing situations, thus extending its life forever really.

I have 2 fuses, which also have not had an issue with the current setup.

Just turn the key off when you stop. No clicks every time you let off the go pedal......

Call me crazy, but I wouldn’t have it any other way.
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