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aacorp 11-14-2012 03:14 PM

Primer / Sealer
Currently prepping my g16 for base/clear paint (PPG), and planned the following order:

1. clean
2. scuff with scotch brite
3. fill nicks/scratches with 'Icing', sand smooth
4. clean
5. tack
6. seal with DP90LF
7. color (shop line:mazda metallic burgundy)
8. clear (shop line)

Now that I've filled the blemishes with Icing, I'm hesitant about just going straight to the DP90LF seal coat. I would much rather shoot a good coat of sandable primer (K36) and give it a nice final dry sand with 400 grit paper.

1. Can I shoot another coat of K36 as a sealer?
2. Do you sand the seal coat?
3. Does the sealer color effect the shade of the color coat, ie; will the metallic burgundy look better laid over the light gray K36 vs the black DP90?
4. What spray tip is best for primer vs. base coat vs. clear coat (using a Devillbis HVLP gun)?

Will post pics of finished product! I'm spraying the golf cart to get back into the 'practice' of painting, as I have a few other 'projects' in the near future!

master66 11-15-2012 09:37 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Currently prepping my g16 for base/clear paint (PPG), and planned the following order:

1. clean
2. scuff with scotch brite
3. fill nicks/scratches with 'Icing', sand smooth
4. clean
5. tack
Adhesion promoter
6. seal with DP90LF Go with three coats of the K36 or Ultimate 2K high build primer then sand smooth with 320 to 400 with orbital sander.
7. color (shop line:mazda metallic burgundy)
8. clear (shop line)

Now that I've filled the blemishes with Icing, I'm hesitant about just going straight to the DP90LF seal coat. You are correct high build primer required instead of sealer. I would much rather shoot a good coat of sandable primer (K36) and give it a nice final dry sand with 400 grit paper.

1. Can I shoot another coat of K36 as a sealer? No this is designed to go over the high build primer.
2. Do you sand the seal coat? Only if you let it sit for more than a couple of days. If so just scuff with scotch brite.
3. Does the sealer color effect the shade of the color coat, ie; will the metallic burgundy look better laid over the light gray K36 vs the black DP90? Yes the sealer will effect the color. If you want the burgundy to pop more go with white sealer.
4. What spray tip is best for primer vs. base coat vs. clear coat (using a Devillbis HVLP gun)? The tip depends on the gun but you use a larger tip for high build primer than you do for base and clear. I use a 1.3 or 1.4 for base and clear and slightly thinned sealer, and a 1.7 for primer.

Will post pics of finished product! I'm spraying the golf cart to get back into the 'practice' of painting, as I have a few other 'projects' in the near future!

master66 11-15-2012 09:38 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Sorry I tried to do my answers in red but screwed it up so make sure you read carefully.

aacorp 11-15-2012 01:18 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Excellent - thanks for the answers. I found a tech sheet for spraying K36 as a wet-on-wet sealer, but it looks pretty complicated and required additional chemicals that I've not used before as well as some type of tinting. More than I'm willing to tackle right now, I'll revert back to DP as the sealer of choice.

master66 11-15-2012 02:07 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
If you haven't already bought the K36 primer you could try Ultimate 2K from Mar Hyde. It is much cheaper but sands awesome, I have been using it for years. It is like the old K200 that PPG used to have. Just a thought and happy painting.

aacorp 11-15-2012 04:48 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Thanks for the suggestion, and will likely try the Mar Hyde in the future. As of now, I stick to PPG solely because I've only painted a couple of cars and that is all I know how to mix! I only dropped down a notch this time around to the Shop Line brand of PPG due to cost, especially since I was trying to match the race car and learned that the race car was painted with the tri-coat Hellfire paints!

I do already have the K36, 201 and DT reducers, (and DP90LF) and was told that I could shoot the Shop Line brand over the top of the K36/DP - would you agree with that?

master66 11-15-2012 05:05 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
As long as it is the same type of system like base/clear, poly eurethane you should be fine, Just make sure it is because of course I give no guarentees they are compatible. I will look it up tomorrow to make sure.

aacorp 11-15-2012 06:32 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Ok, I appreciate it!

Quick 'before' photo, we use our cart to pull a Jr Dragster around the pits - as well as just general all around fun! Next year we will be pulling two Jr Dragsters with it, and eventually 3 when my youngest turns 8!




master66 11-16-2012 08:56 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
So I checked out the Shop Line brand and it is a PPG product so you will be just fine putting it over PPG primers and sealers.
And the Jr dragster is very cool, I am a huge drag racing fan and taking it to the NHRA events is one of the things I also use my cart for. One of my good buddies is the division 6 director so he always gets me a golf cart pass for the National events and my wife and I just love it.

aacorp 11-16-2012 10:40 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Good news on the compatibility, appreciate it. I have no illusions of being a painter, thus am full of questions - hope you don't mind!

I initially planned to paint this cart in early Spring, and bought everything that I needed for the project. Being an NHRA fan I'm sure you can appreciate how the cart project was instantly deprioritized when we were struggling with the engine/clutch setup this Spring - and then broke a valve spring, .... yada, yada. Now, 123 runs later, the cart project is back on, but the weather is drastically different and I bought chemicals for 70 degree temps and I want to use them in 50 degree temps.

So, can I shoot paint / reducers that are intended for warmer temps & 'slow' ranges when it is this cool in Pennsylvania? I was planning to double+ the dry time between coats, will that suffice?

I would leave the project till next Spring, but I'm planning to buy another Jr within the next few weeks - and I'll need to paint this one ---> next Spring!

BTW, as much as I like drag racing, I'm not a drag racer myself. So, my son and I are learning together (primarily by losing - for now!). It sure is fun though, not many 8 year olds are doing 51mph in 660', and then going 75mph at age 10! Car runs a 1.96 60'!!


Oh, and he's learning to shoot PPG as well :) We have a joint project: '69 Nova SS396


master66 11-16-2012 10:45 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Yes if you double the dry times you will be fine. Sounds like a blast racing with your son and who knows you could have yourself the next Dave Connely or something there.

aacorp 11-16-2012 11:58 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Thanks again for the advice! I looked at the basecoat label, looks like I'm shooting Brand Code 6171: Mazda Red Fire Metallic. Will post pics of the finished cart.

Can't leave without a clear coat question though. I have buffing chemicals left over from a previous project, and want to make sure I use them correctly. They are: Presta - Strata Ultra Cutting Creme, and Presta - Chroma 1500 Cleaner Glaze. IIRC, the sequence is wet sand with 1000, then 1,500, then 2,000, then use the cutting creme with a wool pad, and then finish with the glaze with a foam pad. Do I have that right? Can't believe it's been 12 years since I painted the last car! :shock:

Another 'Dave Connely & Erica Enders' would be awesome. My kids love watching the Disney movie 'Right on Track' about Erica racing Jr's. :thumbup:

One more Jr pic for the road:


And a vintage pic - when race cars actually had names instead of sponsors!


master66 11-16-2012 12:07 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
First of all I love the pictures.:thumbup:

Depending on how much orange peel and debris you get in the clear will dictate on what grit to start with . I usually don't go below 1500 grit to start unless it is really really bad. Usually it is maybe 1500 then on to 2000 it really depends on how smooth you laid it down. And also remember don't sand anywhere you can't safely get a buffer into like inside corners and such. You hate to hit the edge of your buffer pad on an adjacent panel and torch it. The cutting compound and glaze are correct, they actually make foam pads for cutting also and they have a radiused edge so it has no sharp corners.

aacorp 11-16-2012 02:01 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Ah - good to know, thanks again.

aacorp 11-19-2012 04:46 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Well, the best laid plans :thumbdown:

I finished sanding the body, and took everything over to the shop to lay down the AP and a good coat of K36 - only to find out that I'm out of K201, bummer!

So, now that I lost a day I'll be on a compressed time schedule. If I wanted the K36 to dry quicker in these cool temps, but didn't want to buy faster reducer, could I add say 25% more hardner and get to sanding quicker?

Also, I checked the spray tips I have and was surprised that I only have a 1.6 & a 1.8. That means I've been spraying base & clear with the 1.6, and have never used a 1.3. Is there a big difference between the 1.6 vs. 1.3? If so, I'll buy a 1.3 as they can't be a lot of money - assuming I can find one for my old gun....

Last car painted - perhaps I now know why it took so much wet sanding:


Another F/C :thumbup:


master66 11-19-2012 05:04 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
So beleive it or not if you add to much hardener it will take forever to dry so lets not do that. The only way to get it to dry faster is to use a heat lamp or a large oven so sorry about the bad news.
I personally use a 1.4 but you could get away with a 1.6 if you turn down the product a little and the air up a little. Love the Raymond Beadle car too by the way.

aacorp 11-19-2012 11:17 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Wow! Never would have guessed that result. We'll do it by the book, no real reason to rush it now. I'll try to get a 1.3 or 1.4 tip, otherwise will adjust it as you've suggested - thanks.

The old FC's are pretty neat, reminds me of when I'd bug my dad to take me to Englishtown in the late '70's - he hated it, I loved it!

One of the best parts of modern drag racing is the golf cart show that accompanies it. There is always something new showing up on somebody's cart, then a trend starts.

aacorp 11-20-2012 02:58 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Could not quickly get a 1.3 tip for my older (1999'ish) gun, so decided to retire it to just shoot primers and bought a kit of 2 guns with accessories that included a 1.3 and 1.8 tips. It can be hard to resist when you are looking at the nice equipment - knowing you have a few projects in the works and can spread the cost over them all! :wink:

Also picked up some K201, and wanted to see what you think of this 'general rule of 15'; if the temp is 15 degrees warmer than your reducer, cut dry time in half & if the temp is 15 degrees cooler than your reducer double the dry time. Does that sound like logical, and if so - can one extrapolate that even further, ie; if temp is 30 degrees cooler then take the original dry time x3?

I'm hoping to limit most (maybe all?) of the wetsanding step if at all possible.

For the NHRA fans, the 'Big' guys are involved at the 'fun' level now.


Ben put the Al-Anabi car on the trailer in the 3rd round. The Al-Anabi driver signed a lifetime contract at age 10!


Bode's Mom wears the boots to the Jr races too! Ben got him on the tree - a little. :thumbup:

master66 11-21-2012 09:05 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
I think you will be fine with just doubling your dry times. You might want to really watch the clear though and just build it heavier as you go so you can avoid any runs.

So what color boots is she wearing to JR dragsters, is it the bright green ones? That is so funny, a little strange but still funny.

aacorp 11-21-2012 02:44 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Thanks,will stick to the 2x dry times.

Laid the AP and K36 last night, that AP is very thin and even though it is tinted red it was hard to see how much was laid down! Put one good coat of K36 down, and called it a night.

Put the body parts out in the sun this morning, it was 35 degrees outside and only 40 degrees in the shop - but was warming up. Spent 4 hours sanding the K36, first with 320 then final swipe with 600. Cleaned it 3x (withy lacquer thinner this time, didn't like the way that DX cleaner works), and just got done laying down one medium coat of DP sealer and am waiting an hour+ before putting the color down. Plan is to lay 3 coats of base, wait an hour, then shoot 3 coats of clear.

I keep telling myself this effort is justified as practice for the bigger projects! Sure is a lot of work, but I really enjoy bodywork and painting - a good departure from the day job.

Will post pics tonight.

Oh - boots are usually just black, don't recall seeing any of the funny colored ones - but I'm usually so busy that I just might not have noticed. We call her 'soccer mom'! :) Nice family, they bring Dad's rig and crew - quite the site!

It's 55 degrees in the shop - going to start shooting base!

aacorp 11-22-2012 08:34 AM

Painting time
I took a series of photos of the various steps, will post them in a logical order - let me know if I missed a step. (I know I like it when folks post lots of pics, so here goes!).

Overall, it went well - till the very end, so typical when you're tired and feeling a little over-confident!

Finished the body work, sanded as much of the filler off as possible. I personally like the USC product called 'Icing', I think other products are equal and/or better, this is just personal preference.



I like to lay out my chemicals up front, just to make sure I have everything. Here is the cleaner, AP, primer, and sealer

Laid down the PPG adhesion promotor, it is very thin and I honestly could not tell how much I was spraying nor where I was overlapping. I'll blame the poor lighting (I'll use that excuse again, and again!).


aacorp 11-22-2012 08:47 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
With a few more projects in the works, I decided to retire my HVLP gun to 'primer only' duty. It is just your basic gun, nothing fancy, but I make sure I have a good line dryer at the gun and a good Sharp air regulator. I have 2 additional, much larger line dryer / oil separators upstream in the air line. I also run 2 air compressors, 1 is a 220v 60 gallon tank plumbed into a 30 gallon tank (I don't run this one though, just use the tank), then a dryer into 25' of line coiled on the floor (to cool / condense the air), then into another line dryer, then another 25' of line to the gun reg and dryer. This might be overkill, but it took me years to figure this out so that I could get a large volume of clean, dry air. Can't keep trash from falling from the ceiling though.... :roll:


Laid down a nice even coat of K36 primer, reduced.



I had filled a long scratch on the quarter panel of the body, and found that the primer sagged almost in line with that repair line. At the time I didn't think much of it, blamed the tight quarters, the lighting, late at night, rusty rythm, etc... Sanded it out the next morning, now I'm not so sure....

aacorp 11-22-2012 08:55 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
After 4.5 hours of sanding the primer, and a good cleaning, I was ready for the seal coat. I used PPG's DP90LF, it is black - I would have preferred to shoot the gray DP50, but already had the 90. I laid down one even coat per Master's tutorial, the less solvents the better.


Once I had the black laid down, I could really see how visible this 'dent' was going to be. Someone must have really hit it hard during its golf course days! The edge of the well is kinked, preventing this dent from bouncing back. Rather than fill it with body filler, I decided to leave it alone. In hind site, should have left the 'Do Not Step' treads in place - as I didn't see it until I removed them. However, I ruined the treads during removal. This will hopefully be covered up with a back seat in a year or so.


I was pleasantly surprised how insignificant this dent became after the color and clear were on though.

aacorp 11-22-2012 09:00 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
I left the sealer sit for an hour, then tacked it and mixed up the base color. It is metallic, so I stirred the quart can for at least 20 minutes!

Broke out the new gun, used lacquer thinner to clean it out and to adjust spray pattern and air pressure. Learned that 30psi at the gun equals 10psi at the cap. :thumbup:


Sprayed the first coat very thin. I don't know if this is proper procedure, but I've learned to shoot a slightly dry coat first and give the next 'wet' coat something to grip onto. Here, after 4 coats of base - it looks much darker than I thought it would, starting doubting the use of the DP90, but that decision was 'water under the bridge'.


aacorp 11-22-2012 09:16 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Used the hour wait time between base & clear to really clean the gun, then went after it with the clear coat.

1st coat of clear

2nd coat of clear - starting to lighten up a little

After the 4th and final coat of clear


Final body

Final nose

Up till now, I was doing so well - no trash, no bumps with the air line, no drips - runs - sags.... Master was right build up the clear coats. When it is cool, the paints sets up slower allowing more time to sag. I think the clear coat hardner was also temp sensitive, and was 'slow' - and I knew the temps were dropping in the shop....

I went around everything one more time looking for 'dry lines' in the clear coat, thought I saw one - right where I repaired that scratch. So, I blasted it and started the cleanup. One final visual before turning out the lights, and I was horrified to see this:


I laid the clear with a 1.3 tip, and have very little orange peel. I thought it was going to be 'easy street' just putting this thing back together! :cry: I'm blaming the poor lighting - again!

So, Master - you've been a HUGE help thus far - what do I do now? I was thinking about taping off around it, buying a nib kit, then wet sand it. If it doesn't turn out, maybe just cover it with some vinyl racing graphics.

:help: :help:

aacorp 11-22-2012 09:23 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
One final NHRA pic - I'm sure you'll recognize this one!


master66 11-26-2012 09:14 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Ah it's all good we have all had our share of runs I am sure. You can get the nib kit if you want but be very carefull in the area where the body meets the fender flare. When you get the large droplets removed I wrap 1000 or 1500 around a small hard block like 1" x 1" the hard block allows you to stay on top of the sag. When you think you have it down enough go back with 2000 grit and a regular foam backed wet sanding pad. Pour water over it to create a shine to see if you have removed the whole sag. If so then wet sand and buff, if not keep sanding BUT BE PATIENT because if you blow through to the color then you have created a whole other problem.

aacorp 11-26-2012 09:25 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Thanks! It's been a few days since I posted that pic, and I needed to capitalize on a few days off from work. So, since I live but 4 miles from The Eastwood Company, I put the body back into the truck and drove it over there so their paint expert (40 years) could provide insight. He said almost the exact same thing as you Master, 'you could go with a Nib kit, but it would be risky on the curve of the fender flare. Instead, shave each droplet down with a fresh razor blade until flush with the surrounding clear coat, and then wet sand'.

So, I bought one of those retractable razor blades and broke off the first section - it made the perfect sized scraper! It took about 2.5 hours of careful surgery, but it came out good.


I made one mistake though (apparently, this is trend!), one of the droplets was not completely cured inside and I dug in a touch too deep. It left a pinhole after all of the wetsanding - hard to see, but I was curious if I could dab some Super Glue into the pinhole with a toothpick?


Feeling better about the whole thing, I went after it with the wet sanding - following your advice, I started with the 1500 grit instead of the 1000. This worked out much better, and once I hit it with the 2000 - it took very little sanding to work out the last bits of orange peel and other little imperfections.


Of course, the hook kit decided to fly apart while buffing - after 12 years of sitting on a shelf, the foam backer just couldn't take the torque anymore! Back to Eastwood for a replacement...


All buffed and ready for reinstallation - but that would have to wait till morning.


Mid 30 temps, and a 20mph wind makes it quite cold. So, we put the big halogens and a heater in the race trailer and reassembled this thing - I really needed to finish this task, before it finished me!


Even the quarter panel turned out nice




Overall, a good experience, and I'm pleased with the results. A genuine 'Thank You' to Master66 for the initial step-by-step tutorial, and for the advice along the way!


master66 11-27-2012 08:57 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
That looks like it turned out great, good job taking your time. Glad I could help with the questions that is what we are here for and love this site.:thumbup:

aacorp 11-27-2012 05:53 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Got it completed and locked away in the shed till Spring just in time - woke up to this view today!


Looking forward to cruising in style when the weather breaks. :thumbup:

aacorp 03-21-2013 11:45 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Master, as mentioned previously, we have now become a 2 car team! My daughter will be starting in July, and so I'm getting this car ready for her. I have a spare body that we will install so my buddy's son can run it for a couple of months, hoping they catch the bug. Eventually will paint the spare body, probably in a 'Draggin Danny' theme for when my youngest turns 8.

Looks like I need to add some type of 'Girl Power' graphics to the cart!



aacorp 07-30-2013 04:05 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
This one is for Master, no explanation needed! Red is 'in' this year, :lol:



Unless it's raining:


master66 07-31-2013 08:28 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
right on! Looks like a little Bob Bode, Jungle Pam or Jeff Diel wanna be action there. Getting excited for this weekend when the NHRA rolls into town this weekend in Seattle.

aacorp 07-31-2013 08:42 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Yep, that's little Bode's mom, doing the Boots thing at the Jr Dragster Eastern Conference Finals in Bristol, TN last week. Nice family, but they pit away from everyone else - understandable I guess.

Have a good time at the race this weekend - you'll see this kid's Dad for sure!


master66 07-31-2013 08:44 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Nice sponsorship there on the junior dragster.

aacorp 07-31-2013 03:20 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
It pays to be in the know! There was a ton of hype throughout the entire week about this car, Antron was only there on Monday/Tuesday since he was racing. It looks like they have a family friend running Anson, and doing a very good job too. Antron just followed the car to the starting line while the other Dad went through the routine. Anson did good, went to a final round and I think he won something or other. All good for the sport of Jr Dragsters when the pro's get their kids involved - 'boots' and all!

While the pro's were going rounds, we were doing this:


Wondering how we could find some traction at the starting line.

But hey, at least our golf cart looked stellar with the PPG paint. :)

master66 07-31-2013 03:22 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Right on good luck to you guys this year.

aacorp 08-09-2013 10:12 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
So, how were the Nationals? Any cool carts there?

master66 08-09-2013 10:25 AM

Re: Primer / Sealer
It was pretty fun but on Friday we got through all the sportsman cars and right when the alcohol and nitro cars were supposed to start it stated raining for the rest of the day so yeah that sucked. Saturday was cool because when all the Pro cars were done we were up in the stands at the end of the day watching sportsman and Jeggy came up in the stands with his cooloer and hung out and watched some sportsman with the crowd "not that there were many of us left ".

aacorp 08-09-2013 02:41 PM

Re: Primer / Sealer
Nice, never a bad day at the track!!

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