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dougs_huntingcart 05-24-2021 08:12 AM

2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
2 Attachment(s)
I purchased this 2012 Mule 4010 (KAF620) which runs well except the radiator fan would not turn on. So I removed the front body to be able to get a better look at things, especially since it's my first Mule. I hooked up 12v to fan and it worked, therefore started tracing wires with help of schematic (attached).

If you look at pp1 of the schematic at the battery, I found that BL/R, W , R (which are factory attached to each other R ) were hooked up to the bat - !

So I found a smoking gun and moved to bat + but noticed that previous owner cut the R lead from this connection. Knowing that the cart ran (and I just replaced the starter) I knew that I had a good R to the starter but the schematic shows I should have a 50A fuse (which I don't) with R that heads to the alternator.... which leads me to my question/ seeking reassurance....

trying to get a pic of this elusive 50A fuse mounting location and then the subsequent connection to the alternator.

Couple side notes... the cart now will not start. If I move the connection BL/R, W , R back to bat - it will run.
All installed fuses are good
When I turn the key, the EPS light up for a second..... probably because there's an alternator voltage issue, LOL . I am hoping that properly hooking up these connections, I'll be in business.... I can only hope !

CCNorth 05-25-2021 01:42 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm probably the last person who should be replying to you, so take it for what it's worth. :roll:

I checked the owner's manual and you do not have a 50 amp fuse. Did you mean 40 amp? All the fuses are under the seat, on the driver's side, but I think you know this and can't find the right one. The only "fuse" for the radiator system is a breaker that can be reset if the fan is not working.
See attached page from the manual. The pic on the left of the page is showing the 40 amp fuse for the power steering.

Also, The manual says, "When you touch the cooling fan,be sure to disconnect the () cable of the battery, since the cooling fan can turn automatically even with the ignition switch off."
So, there IS supposed to be a connection on the battery negative.

You sure the previous owner cut the red wire??

Also, just want to be sure you know that the fan does not come on automatically when the engine is started. It only comes on when the thermostat reaches a certain point and you won't even know it's on until you stop and turn off the engine. The fan will continue to run for a few minutes to cool down, then shut off. Well, this is how mine works and think it should be the same on yours.

Hope something I said is helpful to you. Wish I had more to offer. That's a great mule!

Cartmaster 05-25-2021 02:05 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CCNorth (Post 1827712)
I'm probably the last person who should be replying to you, so take it for what it's worth. :roll:

CCNorth, I have to say, this statement is completely wrong!:lhmo:

I think you are spot on with your reply. Its a breaker for the fan and controlled by the temp sensor via the ECU and a relay. Its been a while since i worked on these and i am trying to get my head around the cut wire etc.

Give me some time to scan through the circuit diagram and i will see what i can make of the rest of the issue. I will get back as soon as i think i have some answers.

dougs_huntingcart.

One question for now. Do you have the optional accessory alternator or just the stock one in the engine? i wonder if that large red was cut because an optional alternator was fitted but then removed at a later stage. That would be why you cannot find an alternator fuse! as that was part of the optional alternator kit and would have been a fusible link wire, not a fuse as such.

Cartmaster 05-25-2021 03:06 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dougs_huntingcart (Post 1827494)
If you look at pp1 of the schematic at the battery, I found that BL/R, W , R (which are factory attached to each other R ) were hooked up to the bat - !

Couple side notes... the cart now will not start. If I move the connection BL/R, W , R back to bat - it will run.


Regarding those wires, If you look at the diagram closely, it appears that they are again for optional accessories. If you look at the second page you will see a list of accessories that are numbered. The alternator is accessory No 10, then if you follow those other wires at the optional alternator, you will find them going to optional item No 9 which appears to be a cargo bed light? and the fusible link for the alternator is optional item No 11. If this alternator is not fitted, then these wires would appear to be redundent.

Will the engine start if you take these wires completely off the battery? If so, i would trace the BL/r and W wires to see if they connect to anything the other end. I dont see why attaching it to the -ve terminal allows the engine to start and connecting to the +ve terminal stops the engine starting considering they should be on the +ve according to the diagram. Maybe the other ends are disconnected and shorting out on something? This is something you may have to investigate as i cant really pop over to take a look LOL. If you disconnect them and everything else works properly and the battery is charging then i think you are good to go.

going back to the fan, i would check the breaker for continuity, then check the relay is good. If they are, i would get the engine up to temperature and see if the signal from the ecu is feeding the relay when hot. If no signal from the ecu, then we need to find the engine temp sender and check that. If all else fails, hardwire the fan to an ignition controlled live until you find the problem. dont leave it like this too long as a cool running engine is not a good thing!

[ EDIT ]
Looking again at the diagram, it looks like the fan temp sensor is designated as "water temperature sensor " on the second page, last item, top right of the page, connected to an orange wire and a ? brown/black . I cant remember if this is mounted on the engine or in a hose adapter like some cushmans are. Hope this helps you trace out the problem. I think If you bridge the sensor connector with the ignition on, the fan should run. If it does, then the ECU, Relay and breaker must be good and the sensor is the probable cause of the fan not running. If not, then suspect one or other of the rest of the components or associated wiring.

dougs_huntingcart 05-25-2021 09:03 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
Thank you all for the replies!

I didn't catch that the RED lead from this factory crimped section in the picture is for an optional alternator. The fact it was cut leads me to guess a previous owner used that for an accessory no longer installed.
The fan fuse is good. What got me to this point was that the Radiator fan relay was not operating. If you trace BL/R from the + side you'll see that it goes directly to the fan relay, which then competes the circut to the BL on the breaker.... then back to the fan....
No the mule will not start without this BL/R, W, R bundle attached to any location but battery - .
I replaced the water temp sensor first when i found out the engine was getting hot and the fan wasn't running as designed... seemed like a logical failure at the time and easy fix; after I verified that the fan, water pump, and thermostat worked.
I checked all fuses is fuse box 1 and 2 and they're good.
Further investigation is warranted to identify if there's another wrongly placed or cut wire.
I should also qualify what i mean by not starting.... there is no cranking of the starter. So turn the key and i hear what sounds like the fuel pump but there's no engagement of the starter.

Cartmaster 05-25-2021 09:51 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
Ok. Looks like something is definitely not right. Next I will look at the crank circuit and see how that is supposed to work. Looking at the diagram, none of those wires crimped with the alternate wires seem to be associated with the crank circuit, so makes no sense! Did you try bridging the wires that go to the temp sensor? If not it's worth a try as it should tell the ECU to run the fan. If it does, then the sensor is not switching to a closed circuit to activate the fan relay. I need to check the diagram again, but left the printout in my office and can't print at home at the moment, so may not be till tomorrow now. I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Cartmaster 05-25-2021 09:57 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
Just from memory, I think the sensor may be variable rather than simply a switch as it feeds the temp warning light too. But as CCNorth said. The fan only operates when the coolant is hot. I'm not sure if bridging the switch will run the fan and light the warning lamp at the same time. Stay tuned for the next episode.

I'm back lol. Just wondering if there is missing ground in the crank circuit and that a phantom ground is being seen through those wires. The crank circuit will be wired through a gearbox neutral position switch and possibly a handbrake/Park brake switch, but I need to see the diagram to confirm. This will be controlling a start relay to crank the engine.

Next episode coming soon.

Cartmaster 05-26-2021 03:35 AM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
I apologise for multiple posts here but the timing means i lose the chance to Edit a previous post.

I was nearly right about the crank circuit. There is definitely a neutral switch involved, probably on the gearbox with a light green wire. so if that is not engaged the starter may not crank. You should be able to test this by grounding the green wire and it may crank. There appears to be no other safety switch in the circuit. If you follow the wire back, it goes directly to the -Ve side of the coil on the start relay, but tee's off to the ECU. Not sure about that, but assume the ECU either reads a ground or supply's a ground. the other side of the relay coil goes to the ignition switch on a black wire with Red Trace ? (cant see the diag clearly enough) the starter motor activation wire goes to the starter relay switch and the other side of the relay switch goes to a fuse and back to battery +. So with this info you can trace the circuit easily. I suspect a fault on the ground side of the activation circuit not pulling in the start relay. This may be why somehow putting those bunched wires on the -ve battery post is somehow supplying ground to the relay ?????

First place i would look would be the neutral switch and work back to the relay. I am assuming the +ve side of the circuit is good as it cranks when you place those wires on the wrong battery terminal -Ve.

Just my thoughts at the moment. Hope it helps.


[EDIT]
Just had a brain flash. Now i can see the diagram a bit clearer, Your wires that are bunched together that you moved from -ve to +ve has a blue/red wire attached. It looks like this may feed the fan relay, so that may be your issue with the fan? it needs to be on the +ve side of the battery for the fan to operate. Try cutting this wire and re terminating it as a single wire back on batt +ve. Dont forget the engine still needs to be hot to activate the relay, or bridge the sensor connector.

If this proves good, then we can concentrate on the crank circuit possibly missing it's ground connection at the relay. It also looks like the white wire in that bunch feeds other accessory connections, so maybe something is wrong here. maybe a short, or something giving you a phantom ground connection. Now i can see the diagram more clearly, i think maybe your issue is just a fault in the crank circuit ground somewhere.

You could try refitting the blue/red to see if that sorts out the fan, then do the same with the white wire to see what happens with the crank circuit and go from there. I honestly cannot see that the whit wire is causing an issue as it just goes to a fuse and then out to accessory connections, but who knows what a previous owner has done in the past.

At the end of the day, if you solve the fan issue, you can probably overide part of the crank circuit if this is for your personal use and just wire straight from the ignition switch to the starter.

Not being able to be there personally it is difficult to really diagnose with just that image of the cables and a diagram. To be honest wire colours on the diagram are really difficult to see.

CCNorth 05-26-2021 02:31 PM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
Would you please indulge me and post a pic of the entire battery showing all the connections?

Cartmaster 05-26-2021 02:35 PM

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 
That's What I meant to ask earlier well done CC.


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