2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I purchased this 2012 Mule 4010 (KAF620) which runs well except the radiator fan would not turn on. So I removed the front body to be able to get a better look at things, especially since it's my first Mule. I hooked up 12v to fan and it worked, therefore started tracing wires with help of schematic (attached).

If you look at pp1 of the schematic at the battery, I found that BL/R, W , R (which are factory attached to each other R ) were hooked up to the bat - !

So I found a smoking gun and moved to bat + but noticed that previous owner cut the R lead from this connection. Knowing that the cart ran (and I just replaced the starter) I knew that I had a good R to the starter but the schematic shows I should have a 50A fuse (which I don't) with R that heads to the alternator.... which leads me to my question/ seeking reassurance....

trying to get a pic of this elusive 50A fuse mounting location and then the subsequent connection to the alternator.

Couple side notes... the cart now will not start. If I move the connection BL/R, W , R back to bat - it will run.
All installed fuses are good
When I turn the key, the EPS light up for a second..... probably because there's an alternator voltage issue, LOL . I am hoping that properly hooking up these connections, I'll be in business.... I can only hope !

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I'm probably the last person who should be replying to you, so take it for what it's worth. :roll:

I checked the owner's manual and you do not have a 50 amp fuse. Did you mean 40 amp? All the fuses are under the seat, on the driver's side, but I think you know this and can't find the right one. The only "fuse" for the radiator system is a breaker that can be reset if the fan is not working.
See attached page from the manual. The pic on the left of the page is showing the 40 amp fuse for the power steering.

Also, The manual says, "When you touch the cooling fan,be sure to disconnect the (–) cable of the battery, since the cooling fan can turn automatically even with the ignition switch off."
So, there IS supposed to be a connection on the battery negative.

You sure the previous owner cut the red wire??

Also, just want to be sure you know that the fan does not come on automatically when the engine is started. It only comes on when the thermostat reaches a certain point and you won't even know it's on until you stop and turn off the engine. The fan will continue to run for a few minutes to cool down, then shut off. Well, this is how mine works and think it should be the same on yours.

Hope something I said is helpful to you. Wish I had more to offer. That's a great mule!

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

CCNorth, I have to say, this statement is completely wrong!:lhmo:

I think you are spot on with your reply. Its a breaker for the fan and controlled by the temp sensor via the ECU and a relay. Its been a while since i worked on these and i am trying to get my head around the cut wire etc.

Give me some time to scan through the circuit diagram and i will see what i can make of the rest of the issue. I will get back as soon as i think i have some answers.

dougs_huntingcart.

One question for now. Do you have the optional accessory alternator or just the stock one in the engine? i wonder if that large red was cut because an optional alternator was fitted but then removed at a later stage. That would be why you cannot find an alternator fuse! as that was part of the optional alternator kit and would have been a fusible link wire, not a fuse as such.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Regarding those wires, If you look at the diagram closely, it appears that they are again for optional accessories. If you look at the second page you will see a list of accessories that are numbered. The alternator is accessory No 10, then if you follow those other wires at the optional alternator, you will find them going to optional item No 9 which appears to be a cargo bed light? and the fusible link for the alternator is optional item No 11. If this alternator is not fitted, then these wires would appear to be redundent.

Will the engine start if you take these wires completely off the battery? If so, i would trace the BL/r and W wires to see if they connect to anything the other end. I dont see why attaching it to the -ve terminal allows the engine to start and connecting to the +ve terminal stops the engine starting considering they should be on the +ve according to the diagram. Maybe the other ends are disconnected and shorting out on something? This is something you may have to investigate as i cant really pop over to take a look LOL. If you disconnect them and everything else works properly and the battery is charging then i think you are good to go.

going back to the fan, i would check the breaker for continuity, then check the relay is good. If they are, i would get the engine up to temperature and see if the signal from the ecu is feeding the relay when hot. If no signal from the ecu, then we need to find the engine temp sender and check that. If all else fails, hardwire the fan to an ignition controlled live until you find the problem. dont leave it like this too long as a cool running engine is not a good thing!

[ EDIT ]
Looking again at the diagram, it looks like the fan temp sensor is designated as "water temperature sensor " on the second page, last item, top right of the page, connected to an orange wire and a ? brown/black . I cant remember if this is mounted on the engine or in a hose adapter like some cushmans are. Hope this helps you trace out the problem. I think If you bridge the sensor connector with the ignition on, the fan should run. If it does, then the ECU, Relay and breaker must be good and the sensor is the probable cause of the fan not running. If not, then suspect one or other of the rest of the components or associated wiring.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Thank you all for the replies!

I didn't catch that the RED lead from this factory crimped section in the picture is for an optional alternator. The fact it was cut leads me to guess a previous owner used that for an accessory no longer installed.
The fan fuse is good. What got me to this point was that the Radiator fan relay was not operating. If you trace BL/R from the + side you'll see that it goes directly to the fan relay, which then competes the circut to the BL on the breaker.... then back to the fan....
No the mule will not start without this BL/R, W, R bundle attached to any location but battery - .
I replaced the water temp sensor first when i found out the engine was getting hot and the fan wasn't running as designed... seemed like a logical failure at the time and easy fix; after I verified that the fan, water pump, and thermostat worked.
I checked all fuses is fuse box 1 and 2 and they're good.
Further investigation is warranted to identify if there's another wrongly placed or cut wire.
I should also qualify what i mean by not starting.... there is no cranking of the starter. So turn the key and i hear what sounds like the fuel pump but there's no engagement of the starter.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Ok. Looks like something is definitely not right. Next I will look at the crank circuit and see how that is supposed to work. Looking at the diagram, none of those wires crimped with the alternate wires seem to be associated with the crank circuit, so makes no sense! Did you try bridging the wires that go to the temp sensor? If not it's worth a try as it should tell the ECU to run the fan. If it does, then the sensor is not switching to a closed circuit to activate the fan relay. I need to check the diagram again, but left the printout in my office and can't print at home at the moment, so may not be till tomorrow now. I will get back to you as soon as I can.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Just from memory, I think the sensor may be variable rather than simply a switch as it feeds the temp warning light too. But as CCNorth said. The fan only operates when the coolant is hot. I'm not sure if bridging the switch will run the fan and light the warning lamp at the same time. Stay tuned for the next episode.

I'm back lol. Just wondering if there is missing ground in the crank circuit and that a phantom ground is being seen through those wires. The crank circuit will be wired through a gearbox neutral position switch and possibly a handbrake/Park brake switch, but I need to see the diagram to confirm. This will be controlling a start relay to crank the engine.

Next episode coming soon.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I apologise for multiple posts here but the timing means i lose the chance to Edit a previous post.

I was nearly right about the crank circuit. There is definitely a neutral switch involved, probably on the gearbox with a light green wire. so if that is not engaged the starter may not crank. You should be able to test this by grounding the green wire and it may crank. There appears to be no other safety switch in the circuit. If you follow the wire back, it goes directly to the -Ve side of the coil on the start relay, but tee's off to the ECU. Not sure about that, but assume the ECU either reads a ground or supply's a ground. the other side of the relay coil goes to the ignition switch on a black wire with Red Trace ? (cant see the diag clearly enough) the starter motor activation wire goes to the starter relay switch and the other side of the relay switch goes to a fuse and back to battery +. So with this info you can trace the circuit easily. I suspect a fault on the ground side of the activation circuit not pulling in the start relay. This may be why somehow putting those bunched wires on the -ve battery post is somehow supplying ground to the relay ?????

First place i would look would be the neutral switch and work back to the relay. I am assuming the +ve side of the circuit is good as it cranks when you place those wires on the wrong battery terminal -Ve.

Just my thoughts at the moment. Hope it helps.


[EDIT]
Just had a brain flash. Now i can see the diagram a bit clearer, Your wires that are bunched together that you moved from -ve to +ve has a blue/red wire attached. It looks like this may feed the fan relay, so that may be your issue with the fan? it needs to be on the +ve side of the battery for the fan to operate. Try cutting this wire and re terminating it as a single wire back on batt +ve. Dont forget the engine still needs to be hot to activate the relay, or bridge the sensor connector.

If this proves good, then we can concentrate on the crank circuit possibly missing it's ground connection at the relay. It also looks like the white wire in that bunch feeds other accessory connections, so maybe something is wrong here. maybe a short, or something giving you a phantom ground connection. Now i can see the diagram more clearly, i think maybe your issue is just a fault in the crank circuit ground somewhere.

You could try refitting the blue/red to see if that sorts out the fan, then do the same with the white wire to see what happens with the crank circuit and go from there. I honestly cannot see that the whit wire is causing an issue as it just goes to a fuse and then out to accessory connections, but who knows what a previous owner has done in the past.

At the end of the day, if you solve the fan issue, you can probably overide part of the crank circuit if this is for your personal use and just wire straight from the ignition switch to the starter.

Not being able to be there personally it is difficult to really diagnose with just that image of the cables and a diagram. To be honest wire colours on the diagram are really difficult to see.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Would you please indulge me and post a pic of the entire battery showing all the connections?

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

That's What I meant to ask earlier well done CC.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Bingo, Colin! That BL/R needs a new connection out of that silly bundle. Also, the connector for the current bundle is terrible. See the white wire peeking out below the connector? It does not appear to be inside the connector properly. If it were and the other end is connected to the fuse, as it should be, it should blow the fuse as soon as the bundle is connected the the Bat - terminal. Am I correct?? Maybe it's the phantom ground.

It dawned on me that the 50a “fuse” you were looking for MAY be right in front of your eyes, on the Battery +. See attached photo. Colin, am I correct??
If I am correct, WHY is it there?? What was connected to it??
I would remove this fuse since it serves no purpose at this point and may interfere with proper contact of the other connectors.
The wiring diagram shows an optional, I think, Red wire from Bat + to the fusible link fuse then to an optional Alternator (#10) that Colin was describing. If I am correct that the Red wire is in addition to all the other wires on the Bat +, why did the previous owner cut the Red wire from the bundle and where is it now connected??

I looked at the manual again and it says “after you replace the battery reconnect the THREE wires/cables to the battery positive and one wire/cable to the battery negative.” So, at least it’s telling us that in the factory setup there are only three wires on the positive. Excluding the bundle, you have only TWO connections on the positive, that I can see, and one HAS to have a BL/R wire to the fan relay. Why is it missing? Of the two connectors on the positive, one is suspicious to me - Pinkish color with a yellow connector. Where does this go?? This color is not shown on the wire diagram. The other connection appears Orange on my screen. Is it really Red?

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

CCNorth:
The red wire cut by previous owner is the large red wire directly under my thumb. The other red wire you reference is the starter wire from battery pos.
I need to get a better picture. I'll be home on Friday.
All those Orange wires are actually red.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I guess I did not ask my question very well. Sorry. The arrow in my pic points to what looks like the other end of the bundle you are holding under your thumb. It's like you could put the two pieces together where the wire loom was cut.

About what I labeled as a possible "fuse" I see that I was wrong! When I enlarged the photo I think I now see that it is a connector for white wires and it's just turned upside down. Sorry.

I'll be quiet now and leave it to you and Colin. :lol:

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

No Worries CCNorth.

I am speculating from photo's and the diagram as i have never worked on a fuel injected gas Mule before. Im just thinking logically from what i can see.

I wish the diagram was higher definition as the colour designations blur when i expand the images.

I wont have much time to look at it today as i have some catching up to do before going on annual leave next week.

I will be back when i can though.

[EDIT]

I am Back for a few minutes.
Right, I managed to take a good hard look at the diagram. You may have to check the diagram yourself though as i am rushing through this.

What i thought was a cable/wire bundle for an extra alternator, actually appears to be the original bundle that fed the starter motor on the large red cable, the white wire feeds the accessory fuse No2 on fusebox No2 and the blue/red feeds the fan relay respectively.
Can you confirm that the cable you currently have for the starter feed is on a factory terminal or does it look like it has been "upgraded". I think that it has been cut from the bundle and connected to the battery post on its own for some reason. I am going to suggest that we cut the white and Blue/red from the bundled wires and terminate them individually. This would put the wiring back to specification. then throw the bundle connector as far as away as you possibly can. Its confusing the real issue here. We need to put everything right. find any stray grounds and eliminate them if there are any. make sure that the fan now works, and then figure out the cranking situation. Find the starter relay and start investigating that. See if you get switched (Crank position of ignition switch) power for the coil of the relay on terminal 85 or 86 and constant power to one side of the switch side of the relay. Probably terminal No 30 fed from fuse 3 in fuse box 3. terminal 87 on the relay feeds the starter motor energizing wire. Now you should find a switched ground on the last terminal of the relay supplied by the neutral switch on the gearbox If this is working you should have a neutral light on the dashboard.

The relay terminal No's are standard auto relay layouts in the UK and may be different, but using the diagram colour codes you can work out which is which. 30 and 87 being the switch then 85 and 86 being the coil.

The negative battery terminal should only have the large ground cable and one smaller ground wire. Kawasaki tend to keep all grounds Black/Yellow making diagnosis easy.

We can crack this one way or another.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

You guys are awesome. Thank you. I got into the electrical briefly but with my son graduating this weekend, this mule isn't on the honey do list.

I did identify that there was a rogue red lead to the positive side (with the yellow connector). I removed that b/c this seemed to be part of a previous light bar installation. I traced a black, white and red through the dash, back up to the light bar toggle switch on the dash. That thing was a mess b/c of a rogue 30amp fuse, a loose red, a connected to the battery red, a rogue black and another connected to some odd accessory relay. All hidden in a electrical tape bundle Christmas present. Such a mess.

Honestly I stopped there because I hear there are "more important" things I need to accomplish.

The mule does not crank. Turn of the key yields the fuel pump prime and a click of the starter relay.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

You think I'm an awesome guy? Thanks! I'll take that. :lol:

Well, thank goodness I'm not totally nuts. I knew that lead with the yellow connector was likely to have issues. Sorry to know you found such a mess. Unfortunately, that mess shows what you're up against. But, have no fear, Colin is here. He'll get to the bottom of it.

What were you told when you bought the Mule? Previous problems? Had it been running recently or sitting a while? Did it/does it have a winch?

Should have told you that the water/temp sensors are a frequent problem. My advice is to always go OEM when replacing. I went through two cheap ones that failed quickly and finally found a OEM replacement along with a relay, flushed the radiator and use a coil cleaner to clean the radiator grill. No overheating issues the past two years.

I sent you a private message. Please check you messages. There is something there that will be very helpful.

Congrats to your son! Enjoy the time with your family.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I was beginning to see what you have found and that's why I suggested we resolve any stray wiring and put things back to how it should be. Then start diagnosing the real problems. Now I know the start relay clicks, I have better chance to guess where the problem is regarding starting. The fan circuit can be tested with a cold engine by bridging the sensor as far as I know.

If CC has sent you a present, I'm guessing we may now all be singing from the same songsheet lol. Oh yeah, she' an awesome guy lol. Sorry CC. I had to do it!

Once you can get back on the job, we will have this thing fired up in no time.

My hopes are that there is nothing wrong with the fan circuit and a simple fix for crank. Possibly a faulty ground for the relay. I think the clue here is that it cranks if you put those bunched wires to ground it cranks, but they should be on batt +ve.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I got your message.
I bought from an elderly couple that owned it for 6 months and they were liquidating their property assets for a major downsize. They bought it from the 1st owner who needed money.
The mule would start intermittently, run for a while, then not restart. After reading a bunch on that issue, I replaced the starter and the fuel which had been sitting for who knows how long. After I did that, the mule ran awesome. Not a single problem while it was cool outside....then I found out about the fan not working as designed. Then I started troubleshooting...

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Yeah my intent is get everything back to stock. It's really hard to troubleshoot when accessories are installed in not a clean fashion.

For the record - everyone are guys.... I grew up in NJ. So "you guys" is relative to whomever.

I'll get back to this thing this week hopefully.

Later

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Ok.

Done some digging with the Technical manual for this machine. During these tests, the engine may start, so make sure the machine is in neutral and wheels are off the ground. Assuming your model is 4X4, that's all wheels! or select 2X4 and jack the rear of the machine off the ground.

If you are not getting crank, with ignition off unplug the start relay and confirm the hot circuit by placing a wire bridge at the socket for the relay on the red and red/white wire terminal. the starter should crank immediately. If so, now test the switch to relay circuit by moving the bridge to the red/white and the Black/white wire terminals. Now the starter should crank with the ign switch on and in the crank position. (engine may start) If so the only thing left is the feed for the ground of the relay which is supplied by the neutral switch on the gearbox. In neutral you should have ground on the light green wire to energise the relay coil and a dash light to show the gearbox is in neutral (usually green)

If you are conversant with a volt meter, set to a low DC volt range and check for :

Red wire = constant ground Seen through the start solenoid coil.
Red/white wire = constant 12V fed from the starter relay fuse
Black/white wire = switched 12V from the ign switch crank position
Light green wire = ground from the neutral switch on gearbox

If all these tests prove you have all good feeds to the relay, then the relay is suspect. The Relay is there to isolate load from the start solenoid and Ign switch plus as a safety device to prevent you starting the engine while in gear. You can ignore a previous post with terminal numbers on the relay as it is not a standard auto relay after all.

If your test results are good and if the wiring is fine, but still no crank, then you may need to replace the relay.

If you are not concerned about the engine being able to be started in gear, you can pull the relay and bridge the Black/white and red connections, at least until you source a new relay


If you are not getting ground from the neutral switch, pull the wire off it and connect the wire to a good ground to see if that allows the starter to crank. If so a new neutral switch may be needed.

If you are not concerned about the engine being able to be started in gear, then you can leave that connector to ground or at least until you get a new switch

For the record, I am not condoning overriding safety devices, just advising how you can, to be able to move and test the machine. This is a technique used by technicians around the world for testing purposes and machine recovery when a breakdown occurs.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Colin

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Just ran out to the garage. So red to red wht yielded starter crank in off position. Then moved key to on position and it cranked/engine running now, which is nice to hear again!
Figured to let it idle run for a little while to get out the webs. Put into forward and reverse for a few feet each way and no issues. Steering assist doesn't work... may be a side note.

The red white to blk wht yielded no crank. Made the oil light come on.

Working my way down the list... I'll report back.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Sorry I think it should be red to black/white for crank. Not red/white. I may have misread the diagram the black/white is crank from ignition switch to solenoid coil and the red is the trigger for the starter! The red white is the fused feed for the relay switch and green is ground from the neutral switch on gearbox. What we are doing here is bypassing the relay to check the wiring is good.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Anxiously awaiting an update! Keeping my fingers crossed.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Same here LOL

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I want an update too! Sorry i was hoping to complete this fix before my summer started with a bunch of back to back visitors. Now it's a conversation piece until i can get back under the hood, alone. I did buy a service manual.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Any progress? Just wondering. :wink:

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

No i haven't messed with it. I had to finish up working on my club car ds and sold that ... and now working to finish up my ezgo shuttle to sell it as well. Then i can work on the mule... not enough hours in the day

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

You have been busy! Just wanted to make sure you had not given up on the project. I'll wait patiently for the happy ending. :lol:

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

CCNorth, I keep getting excited that this project is back on track every time you post here and i get an email notification LOL.

Now i am doing the same to you. :lhmo:

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Well i was able to get to the garage today. It was the craziest scenario. I removed the starter relay to bench test. Hooked up leads from battery and tested continuity and voltage.
Relay wasn't working. Let leads on relay for a few minutes while i was researching cost for a replacement. Then i tested the relay again and it tested good.... so i installed the relay and then gave the mule a test crank.
Noting happened for a few tries, then like on the 5th or six try, it cranked. Now it runs perfectly fine. Cranks and starts on first try every time.
So i then tried the fan relay. Did the same bench test scenario. Showed bad. So left it hooked up and tried again after a few minutes... low and behold the radiator fan is now working.
It's crazy. I guess the mule sat for a while... i have no idea, the whole things seems nuts.
But whatever ! I'm gonna put the whole thing back together now and be happy!
Sincerely, thank you all for your efforts!
Doug

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

Great news!

It is nice when things like this happen. I would be inclined to source new relays to future proof yourself against it happening again though.

All the best.

Re: 2012 Mule KAF620M electrical assistance
 

I'm thrilled you have it working! I love happy endings.

Maybe you knocked some crud loose on the windings. I just don't know. I'm assuming the batteries in your multimeter are new. :oops:

I agree with Cartmaster about ordering new relays to have on hand. I fear you'll be back in the same situation soon. At least you'll know what to replace first. :lol:

Enjoy your mule!